How should the tips of the outer rails on my IG look?

[Howie]

So I installed the outer rails the other day on my Indian Girl. Does this look right to you? See pic...

I would have thought Rushton would have shaped the ends of the outer rails to have the same shape/profile as the end of the stem & deck. But no, these rails are original, and the ends were shaped to allow canvas to show in this area. And no, the canoe hasn't grown in length: the inner rails are the same dimensions as they were. Ditto the outer rails.

How can I handle this to make it look better?

* I suppose I could lop off the ends of the outer rails & epoxy on additional material shaped so that they cover the canvas all the way to the end.
* Alternatively I could trim the canvas in this area so that the (varnished) wood lying below the canvas is seen instead. That might look nice - especially shown next to the outer stems.

I'm leaning toward the latter... Or am I being too picky?

Thoughts?

 

[MGC]

I think you need to mention that yours is a long deck open gunwale with outside stems. There are very few of those around.
A standard IG with short decks and open rails has outside rails that run out to the end of the canvas. I'll send a picture of that but it's not an answer to your question.

 

[Howie]

Yeah, you're right - I'd like to know how it looked originally. But which of the options I mention would look better?

 

[samb]

Howie, my solution would be to trim the end of the rail so it's parallel to the stem ........ or leave them as they are. If you trim the canvas as you describe how will you treat the canvas edge? Gluing extra wood on will look like you've cut them short and had to botch a repair I think.

Sam

 

[Howie]

Thanks for your thoughts Sam.
If I trimmed the canvas and varnished the wood underneath some of the varnish would surely get onto & into the trimmed end of the canvas. So I don't see that as a problem.
And adding wood to the ends of rails is SOP. Getting rails that are in original shape is a rarity: usually these tips come to me rotted away, so adding & material & staining to match color is normal. That being said I'd rather not do it since the rails where shaped this way originally.

 

[MGC]

Bingo, you definitely should not alter those rails.
They have survived in that configuration for about a hundred and ten years. It would be borderline criminal to start hacking them up.
I think you know what to do.

 

[Dave Osborn]

You are correct. Doesn’t look right.
Did you repair the stem and inadvertently add a little length?
Is it the same way on the other end?
Are the outwales reversed?

 

[dtdcanoes]

Dave's questions explain why Rollin sometimes stands back and stares at the thing to make sure that the next step in the process is the right way. On the other hand if Mike remembers correctly, you don't need answers for Dave , but I can say I know it makes a difference when all the parts do come together as they once were. ( It that a screw at the end of the tip ? )
Dave DeVivo

 

[Howie]

Right Dave, I forgot all about the other 3 corners. So here they are:

So to answer your questions Dave O:
* I did not add length to the inner rails or the stems. I did repair a break or two in them but I took measurements and kept the lengths the same as best I could.
* Pics 1,2,4 show a similar end profile that don't match the curve of the stem. Pic #3 shows a tip repair that I made. I tried to match the other 3 tips, but it may be a little different. I lightly sanded the tips before finishing, so I'm sure this is the shape they were originally.
* You'll note that neither rails are exactly centered to the canoe. I did the best I could. Centering was tough to do because...
* When I laid the rails against the side of the canoe I could easily tell from the old screw holes which rail was the left & which the right. But I noticed that the curve at the tips did not match the upsweep at the end of the canoe. I tried switching the rails, ie using the old 'left' rail on the 'right' side of the canoe, and found the tips more closely matched the canoe's shape. I didn't want to force the rails and risk breaking them so I swapped sides. Which means that I had to spend a lot of time shifting the rails left & right by small distances to center them. I didn't get it exactly right, but they're close. I figure the rails lost their shape in the 50 years it sat with the rails pulled away a bit from the body. But since

Dave D: Yup. All 4 tips had 5 #6 screws at the at the tips. Including the very tip. I'm not saying the screw at the very tip is original, but that's the way it was when I got 'em.

 

[Michael Grace]

Hi Howie. Let me say up front that I've not worked on an original, intact IG with long decks and open gunwales. Even so, this just doesn't look right and it seems unlikely it would have left the Rushton factory without all the pieces coming together neatly at the ends. In the first photo, it looks like the outwale is short of where it should be, the kingplank is short of where it should end, and the outside stem (if that's what that is) is very oddly shaped. I've not seen an outside stem tapered almost to a point like that, and then flattened on top in a plane that doesn't match anything else there at the tip. It looks like the tip of one of the kingplanks has an old repair, so perhaps some liberties were taken in the past. Granted I can't see what you're seeing there in person, but if it were me I'd like to make it neat and tidy, bringing everything together in a manner similar to other IGs. I've been looking for photos of an intact open-gunwale IG without success, but closed-gunwale models probably come close.

Looks like you've come a long way already. Looking forward to seeing the final product.

Michael

 

[Dave Osborn]

With only the photos to deduct from, I can’t see anything or think of anything to make it right the way it is.
If it weren’t a Rushton, it could possibly be left as is. However, being a Rushton, if it were mine, I would either shorten the canoe by working down the stems to match the outwales or bend new outwales to match the length of the canoe.
I guess the latter makes most sense.

 

[Howie]

Hell Dave, the canvas is already on - I'm not gonna shorten it! Far easier to add a little material to the rail tips. Easily done.
Everybody seems to think that it didn't leave the factory this way. And that's why I'm asking the experts. Maybe I did add a bit to the inner rails & planking when I restored it. Hard to judge once you splice in new wood...
So ok, I'll extend the tips a bit.
Thanks for everybody's thoughts!

 

[Dan Miller]

 

[Howie]

Thanks for the pic Dan. The shape of the upper part of the outer rails don't match mine, but no matter. at least the outer rails don't extend on to the stem.