My Dad passed last year(at 86) spent the better part of his childhood collecting canoe models from the lake George area and New Hampshire (Guide boats and white birch) . My Mom is losing her home and we need to sell these beautiful boats for as much as we can to get Mom a decent place to live, (my Dad was a decorated WWII vet too!!) any info you guys can give me will help-they are beautiful!!! Thank-you
Help-I need some information with canoe models!!
- Thread starter allison1
- Start date
Mark Adams
all wood nut
well, Pictures are the best way to go. If you could post them here, we'll be able to give you an idea.
I also suspect you have opened yourself up for a feeding frenzy. If the collection is large, and high quality, the best route might be to engage a reputable auction house to list and sell them. You will certainly net more, as the buying would be competitive, instead of "what's the best deal you can give" type sales.
I also suspect you have opened yourself up for a feeding frenzy. If the collection is large, and high quality, the best route might be to engage a reputable auction house to list and sell them. You will certainly net more, as the buying would be competitive, instead of "what's the best deal you can give" type sales.
Paul Miller
Canoe Nut
I agree with Mark and Paul that pictures would help because the prices vary tremendously for things like this. The auction at http://llauctions.auctionflex.com/s...keyword=canoe&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=1&lang=En had many models and you can see that the hammer prices ranged from under a hundred dollars to several thousand dollars each. An auction may be your easiest solution if you don't want to research these things in detail and market them yourself. However, it doesn't always produce the best price for the seller. I purchased one of the models at the auction in the link above and my bid was substantially reduced by the buyers premium (18% to 21% depending on how you bid) and the 7.5% sales tax. No one else seemed particularly interested in the model I wanted so the bidding ended at much less than what I was willing to pay. That was great for me but bad for the seller. The messages about model canoes at http://forums.wcha.org/forumdisplay.php?4 may also be helpful. Good luck,
Benson
Benson
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Thank-you all so much, I have taken a very close look at my parents models based on your "auction" references (very helpful indeed) and I think this is the way to go!!! I will put the pictures on soon in hopes to have your help-prepare for a heap of craziness (some beautiful ones also though). One very interesting model building form too.Thank-you for your help-this is a very hard process!!!
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
Check your private messages
SWEETWATER
LOVES Wooden Canoes
i hope you get every penny you can for them , but i think posting pictures here to get an honest opinion on them first is a good idea, i would also love to see some pictures of his collection. good luck
Roger Young
display sample collector
I'll be happy to assist in any way that I can. It will be necessary to see some good photos. It helps very much to have full-length side profile views, along with close-ups of side profiles of the bow/stern, a view of the decks looking down from above, shots of the interior and the outside bottom. Helps also to point out any damaged or questionable areas, in order to be able to give you a thorough opinion and evaluation. As those above have already mentioned, models can range anywhere from a few hundred dollars to several thousands of dollars in value. The very best of them sell in the tens of thousands, so it's important to spend some time in researching first, then deciding on a marketing plan. Best of luck whatever you decide. Your mother's future welfare will benefit best from a careful, unhurried approach to finding a solution.
Cheers,
Roger
Cheers,
Roger
Hi All - I've FINALLY organized all my photos onto a website for easy viewing:
http://kwolff29.wix.com/vintagewoodenboats
Once again, thank you so much for looking into these for me. Any help will be immensely appreciated.
Allison
http://kwolff29.wix.com/vintagewoodenboats
Once again, thank you so much for looking into these for me. Any help will be immensely appreciated.
Allison
Roger Young
display sample collector
Hello Allison:
Here's what I can tell you about your models. Firstly, these are, for the most part, fairly common 'collectibles', varying in age from perhaps 10 or 15 years to likely 60, or perhaps a bit more, even 80 or 90, possibly. None of them are particularly rare or valuable, although there might be an exception or two, which I will point out. One has to be careful working only from photographs; mistakes can be made. It is much more preferable when assessments can be done 'in hand'. That being said, here are a few thoughts. These are basically model canoes/boats which were sold through gift shops, tourist shops and 'trading posts'. They are not factory samples or 'salesman's samples' of the sort which sell for thousands of dollars. However, they can be delightful collectibles, and I'm sure your parents had great fun and much pleasure searching for them. I'll try to describe them individually and give you some indication of value, as compared to what I see from time to time at flea markets and antique shows.
"A" is an elm bark or spruce bark Native American model, likely dating to around 1950 (give or take a few years). These were commonly sold at 'trading posts' and souvenir shops years ago, and turn up fairly often in flea markets and antique shows today. It is in decent condition. Value: $75 to $150.
"B" is what I would call a "replica" or toy model, likely an import from offshore, possibly China, and likely no more than 15 years old. These are commonly seen, often touted as miniature examples of older American factory canoes. Not really valuable, and often can be bought from $25 to $50.
"C" is, I believe, a fairly early, factory-made toy or model from around a century ago. I have seen a number of these over the years, and even owned one or two. To my eye, it has the most pleasing lines of any of the models that you have. A few nicks and marks, but in nice condition overall. If it were mine, and I were offering it at a show, I'd hope to get probably $150 or so. It's a nice older piece and looks to have a warm patina.
"D" is a bit of a curiosity; it almost appears to be a builder's model of some sort. I'm not sure that I understand the screws or what looks to be like planking marks on the sides. Really wish I could see this one close up. If there is a 'sleeper' in the bunch, this could be it. While it looks like just another old toy canoe, if it is a builder's model it likely would have much more appeal, and consequently more value, to a collector. Even as it is, I think you could place a value on it of $250; however, do a bit of research, show it around to some nautical folks. Just maybe you'll find some interest and a much higher value.
"E" is definitely a recently made reproduction, an import from China, mass produced and cheaply made. Sometimes sold on eBay where sellers with little knowledge and/or high expectations promote them as "samples of early American canoes", they are noting of the sort. Cheap imitations, made off-shore, available by the thousands, worth about $25.
"F" is a fairly commonly found birch bark model, usually sold in 'trading posts' as an example of a Native American canoe. Just which tribal group this is meant to represent has always been somewhat of a mystery to me, as I have never seen it in any of Adney's drawings. I have found it described by vendors as coming from northern Quebec, Yukon Territory, Scandinavia, and a few other places around the world. At 2 feet long, it's a bit larger than most examples I have come across, and it does appear to be in decent shape. Perhaps $100 or so, maybe a tad more.
"G" is perhaps my least favorite of all your items. Again, this is an import from China, and likely no more than 15 or 20 years old. These things have flooded North America by the thousands, and show up in many places, all too often described by sellers as being "authentic salesman samples" from famous early canoe manufacturers of 130 years ago. I have seen them "antiqued" and "distressed", given false labels purporting to claim they were made by Kennebec, Old Town, etc., one or two even painted with totemic designs from the west coast. Worth no more than $25 to $40, there have been cases where scammers have sold them for a few thousand $$$. A little decorative, here, but that's all.
"H" is another elm bark or spruce bark. Same comments as for item "A". Over the years, I have seen such items offered at flea markets for $250 or so, but that was at a time when markets were stronger than today. I would think something closer to $150 is more likely.
"I" looks to be something of a homemade toy rowboat, likely with some fair age to it. I would value it at around $100, give or take.
"J" is another small rowboat type toy; looks to be machine made and possibly mass produced. Similar value to "I".
"K" and "M" look to be hand-operated, machine-produced toys - a type of dugout model. Not sure of their origin or cultural background. Possibly $75 to $150 in value, but might take a while to sell.
"L" looks to be a fairly simple, mass produced canoe type toy; may even have had a sail at one point. Perhaps $75 - $100 as an antique toy.
"N" looks to be an older toy sailboat model; kind of has a "clipper" bow. Again, interesting possibly to someone who collects older nautical toys. Without knowing more about its origins, it's difficult to give it great value. Perhaps in the same range as those just above.
I hope these thoughts are of some help. I welcome others to comment, and offer their own perspective. I base my thoughts on 25 years experience in collecting model canoes and kayaks from around the world, but I do not claim expertise, nor to have all the answers. It's a 'learning voyage' for all of us, and I have made my fair share of mistakes along the way.
Cheers,
Roger Young
Here's what I can tell you about your models. Firstly, these are, for the most part, fairly common 'collectibles', varying in age from perhaps 10 or 15 years to likely 60, or perhaps a bit more, even 80 or 90, possibly. None of them are particularly rare or valuable, although there might be an exception or two, which I will point out. One has to be careful working only from photographs; mistakes can be made. It is much more preferable when assessments can be done 'in hand'. That being said, here are a few thoughts. These are basically model canoes/boats which were sold through gift shops, tourist shops and 'trading posts'. They are not factory samples or 'salesman's samples' of the sort which sell for thousands of dollars. However, they can be delightful collectibles, and I'm sure your parents had great fun and much pleasure searching for them. I'll try to describe them individually and give you some indication of value, as compared to what I see from time to time at flea markets and antique shows.
"A" is an elm bark or spruce bark Native American model, likely dating to around 1950 (give or take a few years). These were commonly sold at 'trading posts' and souvenir shops years ago, and turn up fairly often in flea markets and antique shows today. It is in decent condition. Value: $75 to $150.
"B" is what I would call a "replica" or toy model, likely an import from offshore, possibly China, and likely no more than 15 years old. These are commonly seen, often touted as miniature examples of older American factory canoes. Not really valuable, and often can be bought from $25 to $50.
"C" is, I believe, a fairly early, factory-made toy or model from around a century ago. I have seen a number of these over the years, and even owned one or two. To my eye, it has the most pleasing lines of any of the models that you have. A few nicks and marks, but in nice condition overall. If it were mine, and I were offering it at a show, I'd hope to get probably $150 or so. It's a nice older piece and looks to have a warm patina.
"D" is a bit of a curiosity; it almost appears to be a builder's model of some sort. I'm not sure that I understand the screws or what looks to be like planking marks on the sides. Really wish I could see this one close up. If there is a 'sleeper' in the bunch, this could be it. While it looks like just another old toy canoe, if it is a builder's model it likely would have much more appeal, and consequently more value, to a collector. Even as it is, I think you could place a value on it of $250; however, do a bit of research, show it around to some nautical folks. Just maybe you'll find some interest and a much higher value.
"E" is definitely a recently made reproduction, an import from China, mass produced and cheaply made. Sometimes sold on eBay where sellers with little knowledge and/or high expectations promote them as "samples of early American canoes", they are noting of the sort. Cheap imitations, made off-shore, available by the thousands, worth about $25.
"F" is a fairly commonly found birch bark model, usually sold in 'trading posts' as an example of a Native American canoe. Just which tribal group this is meant to represent has always been somewhat of a mystery to me, as I have never seen it in any of Adney's drawings. I have found it described by vendors as coming from northern Quebec, Yukon Territory, Scandinavia, and a few other places around the world. At 2 feet long, it's a bit larger than most examples I have come across, and it does appear to be in decent shape. Perhaps $100 or so, maybe a tad more.
"G" is perhaps my least favorite of all your items. Again, this is an import from China, and likely no more than 15 or 20 years old. These things have flooded North America by the thousands, and show up in many places, all too often described by sellers as being "authentic salesman samples" from famous early canoe manufacturers of 130 years ago. I have seen them "antiqued" and "distressed", given false labels purporting to claim they were made by Kennebec, Old Town, etc., one or two even painted with totemic designs from the west coast. Worth no more than $25 to $40, there have been cases where scammers have sold them for a few thousand $$$. A little decorative, here, but that's all.
"H" is another elm bark or spruce bark. Same comments as for item "A". Over the years, I have seen such items offered at flea markets for $250 or so, but that was at a time when markets were stronger than today. I would think something closer to $150 is more likely.
"I" looks to be something of a homemade toy rowboat, likely with some fair age to it. I would value it at around $100, give or take.
"J" is another small rowboat type toy; looks to be machine made and possibly mass produced. Similar value to "I".
"K" and "M" look to be hand-operated, machine-produced toys - a type of dugout model. Not sure of their origin or cultural background. Possibly $75 to $150 in value, but might take a while to sell.
"L" looks to be a fairly simple, mass produced canoe type toy; may even have had a sail at one point. Perhaps $75 - $100 as an antique toy.
"N" looks to be an older toy sailboat model; kind of has a "clipper" bow. Again, interesting possibly to someone who collects older nautical toys. Without knowing more about its origins, it's difficult to give it great value. Perhaps in the same range as those just above.
I hope these thoughts are of some help. I welcome others to comment, and offer their own perspective. I base my thoughts on 25 years experience in collecting model canoes and kayaks from around the world, but I do not claim expertise, nor to have all the answers. It's a 'learning voyage' for all of us, and I have made my fair share of mistakes along the way.
Cheers,
Roger Young
Last edited:
Gil Cramer
The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.
Roger,
Thanks for your thorough evaluation. It helps all of us who know little about models.
Gil
Thanks for your thorough evaluation. It helps all of us who know little about models.
Gil
Roger Young
display sample collector
Allison:
I spoke to a couple of serious model and toy boat collectors yesterday while attending the Muskoka Antique & Classic Boat Show, in Gravenhurst, ON, and suggested they check out your photos on this website. Hopefully, they will do so and, if interested, possibly be in contact with you. Good luck.
Roger
I spoke to a couple of serious model and toy boat collectors yesterday while attending the Muskoka Antique & Classic Boat Show, in Gravenhurst, ON, and suggested they check out your photos on this website. Hopefully, they will do so and, if interested, possibly be in contact with you. Good luck.
Roger
