Go easy on me...

[Andre Cloutier]

If i am asking for the impossible...Canoe arrived today from a friend that looks after an island on Millionaires Row on Lake Muskoka, owned by a family from Pennsylvania named Hillman the last 102years. One other family that might have their name on it, related to the Bush's somehow but waiting on their name. The preamble is due to the fact that the one stem is illegible, and the other is missing 6" with , of course, the serial number. 16' long, AA grade, i think HW, 12" deep with sponsons and diamond head bolts. Could one narrow the 16' sponsons from the diamond head era to look for such a beast, or would the numbers of boats be too large? I figure its a longshot, but just maybe.... I am sure it would have been brought to Muskoka from the US, not ordered up here - although not positive. Its Gibraltar Island, but i doubt it would have been shipped here, although i suppose they could have done so. It would have been shipped to the landing and marina at Beaumaris, Muskoka, or possibly through Toronto. Boy is she rough, but it has that wonderful fiberglass coating that improved many a boat since its introduction. Oh, and does anyone have 17' mahogany? it spent some quality time in the water rubbing on rocks after a storm tried to take it away. Oh, and carry thwarts and a floor rack as well. cant determine if it had outside stems, but keel screw holes of course.

 

[pklonowski]

What, you're not using this for kindling? Or are you hoping Dave Wermuth will rescue it for you?

Looks like the 'glass is peeling off relatively easily... was it glassed over the canvas?

 

[normsims]

Andre,

Benson might have some way of tracking this. The serial number database won't be of much use with this boat. It is not a searchable database where we could look for boats with sponsons or a particular delivery point. It is organized only by the numbers. Any legible numbers from the one stem might give us a place to look...

Norm

 

[Benson Gray]

It is said that nothing is impossible with enough time and money. It looks like you will have spent plenty of both before this project is finished. There are hundreds of thousands of Old Town records as you probably know well and there is no easy way to search these automatically as Norm mentioned. Less than seven percent of these have been loaded into a database so this might provide a very small chance to identify your canoe.

The database shows 91 canoes that shipped to Ontario with only one of those was 16 feet long in AA grade with sponsons. The bad news is that it shipped in 1913 which is well before diamond headed bolts are thought to have been first used. You could assume that the bolts were all replaced in a repair after 1920 and then the correct record for your canoe might be shown below.

There are a total of 195 other canoes in the database that are 16 feet long in AA grade with sponsons that shipped to places other than Ontario so it gets more complex if you assume that it originally shipped somewhere else first. This also implies that you have one out of more than approximately 4000 Old Towns that were built like that.

I would encourage you to use all of the usual tricks to see if you can identify at least some of the digits on the remaining stem. Good luck,

Benson

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Thank you Norm, and Benson - i figured it would be a long shot, but that there would be a slim chance! as i mentioned, one stem is illegible and the other missing a piece. So, we got close. The serial number records never cease to impress - quite the number of boats over the years. Of course, if it was brought by train and steamer from the US home, then a search would be near impossible. Well, no need to wonder at its construction, definitely AA grade HW, sponsons, wrc planking, diamond bolts and floor rack and keel. As close as we get! What is the era of diamond heads that is commonly accepted as accurate? We could at least know "its not older than....", correct?

 

[Benson Gray]

What is the era of diamond heads that is commonly accepted as accurate? We could at least know "its not older than....", correct?

The start of diamond headed bolts is usually quoted as around 1920 but I don't know of anyone who has ever attempted to verify this. I have a canoe in my garage from 1927 that has them. Does anyone here have an older one that appears to have original diamond headed bolts? Please post pictures and the serial number if you can. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I've got a '23 hanging up and I'm pretty sure it's got diamond head. I also have Honduran and know where there is more. I also am wondering if Andre' has converted. I should pull those canoes down from the rafters.

 

[Gil Cramer]

The canoe looks like it is an HW from the 30's or 40's. The deck style is the later type, not from the 20's. If the seats were hand caned then the canoe is probably from the 30's. that would narrow the serial number down to somewhere between 100,000 and 140,000. It doesn't take TOO long to visually check 40,000 records if you have the Old Town serial number cd's.

 

[chris pearson]

Gil,
Remember that certain canoe that was burned one time long ago up at Paul Smiths over the camp fire? It was an HW and IN BETTER SHAPE THAN ANDRE'S CANOE!!!! And nobody wanted it!!!!!!!! Andre, youve burned better!!!!! JUST SAYIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Youve lowered your standards.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Chris, come to Killbear and you can strike the first match. Should make a lovely fire on the beach for at least 4 or 5 minutes. And you can score some diamond head bolts so bring a rake. Gil, the seats were replaced, only part of it not original. But i cant talk now, I've got 39,385 records to go.

 

[Steve Lapey]

Andre, try to be patient, I am still looking for a GOOD Old Town for you.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Actually, i was interested to see what was going to come out of those boathouses, since so many of the islands and property around the lakes were and still are American owned. The 18 other boats were nice though. I was hoping for an early Canadian boat, but when they said it has 'those things on the side' it was a long shot at a Pete or Chestnut, although i had a sponsoned Pete wyears ago, from the '20s. Price on this was right, although i suppose it cost me a gallon of gas, so i hauled it away for a beach blaze in Sept. Wouldnt it look spectacular on the green though....