Design Help

[blodg]

Hi,
I am looking to build a tandem wood canvas canoe to take down the North Forest Canoe Trail this spring. Given all the time and effort that goes into building a form, if all goes well and I enjoy the building process, I would be interested in producing one or two canoes a winter in my spare time to try to sell out here in the Grand Teton/Yellowstone National Parks area. I'm not sure if I would end up doing this but it would be nice to have the option. There seem to be a lot of great designs out there available in the form of plans but, given my potential commercial interests, I really don't want to step on anyone's toes. If anyone had any thoughts, ideas, or guidance about this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Blodg

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hello! I can't imagine anyone in the WCHA would complain of their toes being stepped on. "Sharing" and "helping-out" are a big part of this group-- even among those who build canoes commercially. Others will be along here soon with suggestions, but if you are located anywhere near a WCHA chapter, my suggestion is to contact them... if not, locate another WCHA member (especially a member who is a builder) and compare notes. There is a link to listings of chapters and builders on the main page of this webiste... as well as lists of places to find supplies. You might also be interested in attending our Assembly next July, as the topic, "Modern Classics", is all about building wooden canoes, and many who build commercially will be there to share their knowledge. Like you, many will be one-person shops.

Anyway, welcome... and you'll find a lot of encouragement regarding your plans in this place!

Kathy

 

[Paul Miller]

Dido what Kathy said,

Plus, welcome to the learning curve.

I will quote an sage here on the forum, ( I think it was Dan Miller)

You can make a small fortune making and restoring canoes; provided you start with a large fortune.

Most would suggest you try some canoes and find one you like and copy it.

Good luck,

Paul

 

[Greg Nolan]

I don’t know what kind of building form you are thinking about. If you haven’t seen it, you should read the article by WCHA builder-member Alex Combs in Wooden Boat magazine (no. 217, Nov.-Dec. 2010) found at http://www.stewartriver.com/images/woodenBoat_12-2010.pdf , which compares building on an “open form” to building on a “solid form.” Wooden Boat nos. 141-143 also have some good information.

Building a solid form is as much work, if not more work, as building the canoe itself. The mold for open form construction is substantially less work. I don’t know how much free time you have, but if you want to canoe the Northern Canoe Trail in the spring, you had best have lots and lots of free time if you expect to build your first solid form and your first canoe by then.

A couple of back issues of the WCHA journal Wooden Canoe have some valuable information – see April, 2006, no. 134 and Summer, 1981, no. 7. Back issues of Wooden Canoe are available from the WCHA online store for $4 apiece. http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-Magazine-Back-Issues/

There are, indeed, many different plans available from a variety of sources, some free, and some for a modest fee. Several of the WCHA builder-members sell plans – check our Builders and Suppliers Directory to see who offers plans, and to get some idea of the variety of models available. Buying a plan from someone building canoes today gives you some assurance that the plan will be for a canoe that meets your needs. Plans from older sources and free plans are not always clear about the characteristics of their canoe – make sure you know that the canoe you build is suitable for the trip you intend to take – not every canoe is suited to taking two people and their gear through waters that range from small ponds through large lakes through class III white water streams, with a variety of portages thrown in just to keep things interesting.

The Northern Forest Trail is a great adventure, but it should not be undertaken without careful planning – and choosing the right canoe is one of the most important parts of that planning.

Have fun building, and have fun paddling, and let us know how you are doing (with pictures, please) as you build and travel.

Greg

 

[Gil Cramer]

If I were going to build canoes for the purpose that you indicated, I would use a proven design. I would buy the plans or the form from a current builder, and pay a royalty for each canoe, if required. I am a canoe restorer and not a builder, and have seen some do-it-yourself designed canoes that I really wouldn't want to paddle. Designs by Old Town, Chestnut, White, and Morris are designs that have withstood the test of time.

 

[blodg]

Hey,
Thanks for the replies everyone! I think I am going to end up putting possible future production plans aside and just focus on building my canoe. With that being said, I am going to build an Atkinson Traveler. Greg, thanks for the info, it definitely bumped my thinking in the right direction. I was planning on building a closed form because I usually go all-in when I do something but, in the interest of time and money, I am going to try to use an open form as you suggested. I do have a lot of time to commit to building but it seems more prudent to just get the one boat built and worry about anything else in the future.
I'll try to put up some pictures as I move further through the process.

thanks again!
Blodg

 

[MGC]

I am going to build an Atkinson Traveler.

I have one hanging in my garage. It has a few busted teeth and it's been skinned up a bit along the way (on the NFCT).
It would be my first and number one pick for this route and really for almost any long trip.
They paddle gorgeously, take the big waters on safely and easily carry any reasonable load you may have.
For the NFCT I might try to keep the weight down in it and leave out half ribs. There are some really good carries.
IMHO, the Traveler is the best canoe design ever for North Country travel.
I own White, Morris, Chestnut, Rushton, Cedar Strip WW, Carelton, Gerrish, OT and without any hesitation the AT is my favorite for this trip...Prospector would be far lower on my list...the White would get the nod.

 

[Benson Gray]

I am going to build an Atkinson Traveler.

The December issue (number 180) of the Wooden Canoe Journal has the following advertisement on the last page which might interest you. "17 1/2’ CANOE FORM. This form is for an Atkinson Traveler canoe designed by Roland Thurlow. It has been divided into three pieces for easy storage and transportation. It comes with full size plans and book by Stelmok and Thurlow. Located in Blaine, WA off I5 and would be an easy pick up by someone in the PNW. Photos on request. Asking $500. Richard Mollette;
360-927-5890; rwmollette@gmail.com." Good luck,

Benson

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but,

before you commit to a given design - PADDLE IT!!
Make sure it will do the job and suits you.

Dan
(for me an AT is way to tippy, but then I'm a big guy)

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

All you need to do is ask!
I now have the special Lindburg Atkinson Traveler. I take your weight and height convert it to inch/lbs, divide by 2/3 the width of the std Traveler in inches, multiply by the lbs of anticipated load carrying capacity and then keep subtracting until I get a number I like and viola- and new beam width for the "Dan A.T."
I worked on it all day and now we can see the results!

Its all tongue in cheek. Dan is right, its good to try out a design before committing to building it. Its a lot easier to tweak a design before it is built rather than after.

 

[Dan Miller]

Rollin, a touch more sheer, and I think you've got it!

 

[Dan Lindberg]

)

I darn near fell out of my chair, thanks Rollin, it looks great.

Just for perspective, the 17' 1950 HW I did was also too tippy.
Our 1958 Seliga is our favorite canoe, but nobody will ever mistake a Seliga as a narrow Cruiser.

Dan

 

[MGC]

)

I darn near fell out of my chair, thanks Rollin, it looks great.

Dan

That one looks like a wiener, winner...

 

[MackyM]

That is really good. It must be Christmas.