Data / photo library

Dan Lindberg

Ex Wood Hoarder
Dan, Benson and any other site controlers,

Kathy's comments about a photo id section is something I've thought about recently.

Dan, your site is good but I wonder if it's time to take it to the next level, by adding a section here that would include data on builders/manufacturers AND a photo/image library of examples of each brands models and features.

I recently joined the Old Wood Working Machine site/group and they are doing this. Their site is broken into 2 seperate sites, a "data" site that contains a listing of machine manufacturers and a photo/image index showing the various machines. On this site, members can supply/upload data and images. The second site is a BB site where folks can ask questions are just talk.

The sites are (data) and (BB)

I have no idea what it would take to do this and/or if it takes special software but I think it would be a good "next step".

Take a look and see what you think.

Interesting--I just spoke to Patty Macleish about this very thing this morning. Brilliant minds and all that!! Denis:D
Yes, that is a good idea, and one that we have discussed recently. A few points to consider:

* in the 5 years that the DCW Identification Guide has been up, there has been only occasional feedback on its usefulness, and I can count on the one hand the number of folks who have contributed content, and on the other hand, the number of folks who have allowed content to be added after being asked. Admittedly, my site being a "commercial" site, such that it is, may be a deterent over the WCHA site, but I have to wonder...

* a couple months ago, we actually set such a thing up in the forums. It was up a few weeks until I broke it and removed it. In the time it was up, not one forum member asked what it was about, let alone contribute content. No, we didn't promote it at the time, but neither did we see any curiousity...

So, I propose that those of you who would like to see such a database, gather together and develop a proposal for how it should be done. Some things to consider are:

* If not in the forums, what software framework to develop it in (e.g. if in straight html, it can be submitted to Benson or myself and we can upload it to the site, if it requires additional software, you'll need to work with Tim for approval and/or installation).

* who will moderate it to ensure accuracy of information? Someone will need to qualify contributions to try to prevent the spreading of mis-information.

* given the traffic we have, what more do we need that can't be met within the framework of the forums?

* how to organize it... nice to be able to compare and contrast, as well as visit builder-specific pages.

OK class, discuss... :)

Did you take a look at the OWWM sites? They have a LOT of info there, both in text and images, much that I think members just add themself's.

As for your site, sorry, a huge THANK YOU for providing the service, I regularly take quick looks at it and often point other folks I talk to, at it.

I had no idea that you had put something on the WCHA site, though I usually go straight to the BB and only sometimes to the main site.

Yes, incorrect info would have to be watched for, I'm not sure how/who other then you folks that know canoes very well.

From an image standpoint, I was thinking about images of each manufacturers models and features. The OWWM site has many duplicates and it's Ok, they may also have more manufacturers, I don't know if their software has a limit to the number of entries. They also scan manual/catalogs but I think we already have that covered. It sure is handy to be able to see a image of a piece of equipment that is the same as or close to what one has or is thinking about getting.

DCW Identification Guide Very Much Appreciated

I have the DCW not only in "favorites", but on a toolbar at the top of my screen. I've learned a lot about canoes there-- the site has not only increased my knowledge but also sparked even greater interest, for me, in the history of canoes and their builders.

I'm wondering if we couldn't start with something fairly simple--- a survey type of thing-- folks listing what it is they have with as much concrete description as they are able to provide... I can see potential problems because of difficulty figuring out the specific model of a particular canoe, but here in the forums such things are discussed (if someone is unsure what they have and are asking for help figuring it out), and such discussions can be very informative... it sometimes feels as though people here are "learning together"--- there's a wonderful spirit to this place and to WCHA members in general, who want to share what they know and learn from each other.

I know people are busy with "real life" and this internet stuff can end up taking a lot of time... but maybe there are people who'd like to take on one or two specific canoe types they feel they know well enough, and moderate/organize that part of whatever is used to gather the information... that way the burden isn't on only a few--- and isn't necessarily on the same people who moderate this board.
Perhaps we could ask for the information and add that photos of pertinent parts such as decks, stems , SNs, gunnels and profile be included if the person wishes.
There are only a few of you guys that really know boats well. You, Mcgrievy,Rollin, Benson, McDaniel,Todd,Gil and I'm sure I missed several [my apologies to them]. I'm sure that others like myself and Kathy would learn a whole lot! Just some of my thoughts. Denis
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a bad idea, quite the opposite. I thought it was a good idea way back when I started my Guide on my own site.

What I am saying, is work out the details of how to do it, and then the webmasters can assist in implementing it. Or, you can contribute to the Guide that already exists...


PS, Dan, the experimental one was part of the forums, a couple forums in the Research section. And yes I have been on the OWWM site a number of times (they still don't show how the wooden spring should be fabricated for my foot-powered morticing machine). It is a wealth of information, but the paradigm isn't all that different from my ID guide.
Some thought's about an index.

I've always thought a goal (for both an index and the general site) should be along the lines of:

To get as much information to the maximum number of indiviguals with the least amount of effort on the receivers part.

With this index should be...

1) On the main site, not the BB, as the BB is not very retrievable.
Data scrolls off the page too quick.
It's hard to find a given subject, in part because the BB is a
discussion, not a formated database.

2) Readable/searchable by all who visit.

3) It should be formated so that each entry has the same basic information,
(it could be N/A but a place for the info would exist.)

4) It should allow registered members the ability to deposit info, so that the
effort isn't done by just a few moderators.

5) Each entry probably should have a field indicating whether the data has
been checked for accuracy by an expert.

6) It's Ok to have unknown's entered, maybe somebody recognizes it later
and/or can provide additional data.

7) I'd probably have fields for: manufacturer/builder, model, year built,
location built, accuracy check, submitter, and the ability to contain 4-6
images showing the basic shape and defining construction details.

8) Someplace where written data could be held for verbal descriptions and
tables showing dimensions, similar to what Dan M already has.

I'm sure there is more but this could be a start.

And an extention would be having all of the historian data included also, yes, I know with some manufacturers there may be a copyright issue, but the others could be included.

Again the goal would be to have the maximum amount of information available to anybody looking.



as for wooden springs, you need to post some pics, this sounds interesting. :)
(note that that might be pushing the OWWM site, as they seem to be mainly old "arn" and into cleaning, derusting, some machining and painting, and are aggressive in removing/discouraging anything not directly related, ie, no woodworking allowed.)
Dan-- The suggestions you made in your previous post sound great to me-- does anyone here know how to set it up... ? I'd love to begin depositing pictures and see what others have to offer.


I know nothing about web site building or setup, or what it might take to create a web based database.

I will ask the folks at the other site if they built it or if it's "caned" software.

The impressive thing about the other site is that it's searchable, and data can be found and arranged in many ways, ie, by brand, model, machine type, year?, etc.

Infernal Optimist...

Lack of response at this time of year could have something to do with the holidays and other obligations at the beginning of a new year. I believe if the setup made it easy for people to drop off information, it might work.
Kathryn and I will be sending the information and photos of the canoes we have but it will have to wait till the weather warms because they are now in storage. Perhaps that will jump start the sending in of information by others. Perhaps if Patty mentions it in " Wooden Canoe" that would help too. It may take some repetition of the notice but I think it is do-able. Denis