Canoe Restoration Update From a Newbie

[NWL]

Awhile back I made a thread looking for some advice on what I should do with an old chestnut I received. Here is a link to the thread where I posted pictures and a video for everyone to see....

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?7647-Unknown-Chestnut-Project-for-a-20-year-old-Student

I never responded and was more or less occupied with other things that just took my mind off the subject and made me forget. I guess life got in the way and I never got around to following up with everyone who gave me their input.

Well many months have passed and my boat is still sitting in a friends cabin waiting for someone to pay attention to it. I think the time has now come for me to do something.

Previously in the thread before I mentioned a builder that I knew that was willing to do the restoration work. In the last few days I again talked to him over the phone and he was willing to do job for around 1000 dollars...cavas,restoration...about everything I would need to get my boat back into good looking and working order.

I know many people said it would be too expensive to restore but I feel like this is a pretty fair price to get my first wooden boat I've ever owned.

The builder wants me to bring his boat up to him in May so he can have it completed by the end of August (hopefully) when I leave my summer guide position...

Hes one of the more "genuine" and honest human beings I've had the pleasure of meeting in my short life and on top of that I have had the pleasure of using his boats over the summer as he builds them for the camp I work with.

Here is his website...nothing fancy and his pictures are pretty sparse but I wouldn't doubt that perhaps some of the members on here know of him...he told me he visits this website on occasion.

http://www.gifts-crafts.spencer-canoe.on.ca/


On a side note. I just realized that the WCHA Annuel Assembly takes place right on my college campus! Im actually hoping to make it up after school is over to see what its all about. Needless to say I was shocked. I love Paul Smiths and one of the big reasons Im chomping at the bit to get my bot restored is so I can finally explore the waterways around here in my own canoe!

Im just wondering what members think...and if they have any more advice for me. Thanks everyone!

 

[Greg Nolan]

Do come to the Assembly this summer -- you'll really get a taste of what wooden canoes are all about.

Advice? If you haven't been over there yet, get to the Adirondack Museum in nearby Blue Mountain Lake one of these weekends. Otherwise, it sounds like you have things well in hand.

 

[NWL]

Do come to the Assembly this summer -- you'll really get a taste of what wooden canoes are all about.

Advice? If you haven't been over there yet, get to the Adirondack Museum in nearby Blue Mountain Lake one of these weekends. Otherwise, it sounds like you have things well in hand.

After looking at my calender I realized that the Assembly will be during my first week at my summer job making it impossible for me to attend. I really wish I could make it. I will be talking a trip to the Adirondack Museum shortly..its a popular destination for some of the colleges classes. I am going ask to spend some time with the builder I'm using. I would relish the opportunity to give a hand in the restoration process and learn a bit of wood working.

Any advice how to transport a beat up canoe on the roof of my car? I have a 2001 Subaru Outback. I don't really know what the safest way would be to secure it.

 

[MGC]

I will be talking a trip to the Adirondack Museum shortly..
Any advice how to transport a beat up canoe on the roof of my car? I have a 2001 Subaru Outback.

Somehow I have a feeling this will not be your last W/C canoe.

There's some great paddling up around PSmiths. Take advantage.

The ADK Museum does not open this year until May 25th...after PSmith's Commencement. You may need to plan a fall visit.

For carrying on a Soobie....the wheel base on those cars is pretty short and the roof rails are not the best but lot's of folks haul canoes on them.
I would put Yaki Rail Grabbers on the roof and pick up a set of their gunwale brackets. The set comes with cinch straps.
I use mine without a front tie-down and only tie down in the back but with the short wheelbase you have, you should tie in the front too.
If you can get to some frame or other member in the front you can secure the the bow of your canoe to that. I usually clip an old biner under the car and tie to that.
It's also possible to connect to the top of your fenders and run some nylon webbing up through the gap between the hood and the fender.
Folks make attachments using webbing and grommets for that. If you plow through this site, I think there have been discussions about that. I seem to recall that Dennis was making these at one point?
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5017-Cartopping-a-wood-canoe/page2&highlight=hood (found it)
How fussy you are depends upon how fancy your car is. If your Soobie is like my sons, you could drill some holes in the hood and attach eye-bolts

 

[Dan Miller]

Looking at your earlier photos, your canoe looks sound enough for cartopping without further reinforcement (but use your judgement - it's easy to add temporary thwarts or sister broken inwales if necessary).

One of our vehicles is a 2008 Subaru Outback, and it is set up just like MGC says. Truth is, my old F-150 Crew Cab had an even shorter span than the Subaru and it carried a lot of canoes between Wisconsin and NY... Front and/or rear tie downs can be threaded through the space between the ribs and inwales just aft of the decks.

With good racks, and at least three tie-downs, you can cartop about anything - see attached!

Oh, and MGC - your sons have got it right... You can always tell a True Canoeist because they're the ones who park their car outdoors all winter and aren't afraid to put eyebolts through the hood or bolt 2x4s to the roof...!

 

[NWL]

Somehow I have a feeling this will not be your last W/C canoe.

There's some great paddling up around PSmiths. Take advantage.

The ADK Museum does not open this year until May 25th...after PSmith's Commencement. You may need to plan a fall visit.

For carrying on a Soobie....the wheel base on those cars is pretty short and the roof rails are not the best but lot's of folks haul canoes on them.
I would put Yaki Rail Grabbers on the roof and pick up a set of their gunwale brackets. The set comes with cinch straps.
I use mine without a front tie-down and only tie down in the back but with the short wheelbase you have, you should tie in the front too.
If you can get to some frame or other member in the front you can secure the the bow of your canoe to that. I usually clip an old biner under the car and tie to that.
It's also possible to connect to the top of your fenders and run some nylon webbing up through the gap between the hood and the fender.
Folks make attachments using webbing and grommets for that. If you plow through this site, I think there have been discussions about that. I seem to recall that Dennis was making these at one point?
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5017-Cartopping-a-wood-canoe/page2&highlight=hood (found it)
How fussy you are depends upon how fancy your car is. If your Soobie is like my sons, you could drill some holes in the hood and attach eye-bolts

There most certainly is allot of great routes around here. Hell, the North Forest goes right through campus.

I was afraid of eventually having to pony up for a real car rack system. Im just confused on what kind I should buy....if Im correct and go with a Yakima I need the rail grab and gunwale brackets and thats it?

http://www.amazon.com/Yakima-Railgrab-Tower-Set-4/dp/B001VE6II2

http://www.amazon.com/YAKIMA-Yakima...ing-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1332978522&sr=1-2-spell

Is this what I should be looking for? Do you have any experience with older model outbacks? Im just worried about the fragile condition of my boat. I dont know if it could take a direct tie down. Maybe Ill just drive 40mph the whole way haha.

 

[Dan Miller]

Yakima's fit guide on their website is really pretty good. You tell it what your vehicle is, it tells you what you need. Without going through that, yes, the Railgrab and gunwale brackets are probably it. But, you'll also need the bars, too...! The gunwale brackets are essential, to keep your canoe from sliding off sideways (experience speaking here...!).

There are probably also local dealers (maybe EMS in Lake Placid or Mountain Man in Keene) that carry Yakima that can help you determine what you need.

 

[NWL]

Yakima's fit guide on their website is really pretty good. You tell it what your vehicle is, it tells you what you need. Without going through that, yes, the Railgrab and gunwale brackets are probably it. But, you'll also need the bars, too...! The gunwale brackets are essential, to keep your canoe from sliding off sideways (experience speaking here...!).

There are probably also local dealers (maybe EMS in Lake Placid or Mountain Man in Keene) that carry Yakima that can help you determine what you need.

Man its just one big scheme by Yakima :'[

Buy everything separately so we can fleece you

 

[Dan Miller]

Man its just one big scheme by Yakima :'[

Buy everything separately so we can fleece you

No, they've just made it so we can still cartop our canoes with modern-day cars... used to be cars had raingutters, and for 15 bucks you could get racks at K-Mart. Blame Detroit.

 

[pklonowski]

The other reason for Yakima and Thule selling all the parts separately is because each part can be used on multiple vehicles... in fact, the racks for my '89 Honda Civic worked on the '99 minivan, no additional parts needed. When I got my next car, all I needed was the clips for attaching the towers to the car's door jambs.

I always recommend getting the 78" crossbars, so you can carry two canoes. Think about car shuttles on river trips... it makes life easier.

Look underneath the bumpers... there are probably tow hooks near each wheel well. These allow you to tie down both bow and stern at multiple points, creating an "A" frame at the stems. This will help stabilize the ends of the canoe, especially at highway speeds, and when a truck goes by, creating turbulence. With both ends tied securely, and two "belly straps," you'll probably be okay.

 

[MGC]

I have had pretty good luck with these folks. They tend to be a bit lower in price. for new "stuff".
http://www.rackattack.com/yakima-canoe-racks.asp

You can always find rack systems on Craig's list and save a few bucks that way....but you may also end up with parts that you don't need or want.

Dan....gutter mounts were the best. My first Yak racks were the ultimate gutter system. I bought them in in 82 or 83 and kept buying cars with gutters so that I could keep using them...the best! After all those years of $15.00 racks and two by fours, they were amazing! I have not shot a canoe off the roof since I started using Yakima..before that...a couple shot off, and a few Christmas trees (along with the racks).

You can do a lot with good roof racks:

 

[Greg Nolan]

While I now have proper Yakima canoe brackets, for years I managed fairly well with four of these:



Yakima Universal SnapArounds. At $11 for four, plus $5for the bolts and $7 for the wing nuts, they are substantially cheaper than a set of brackets at $89 (prices as per REI catalog). After the canoe is on the rack, put these on the rack cross-bars snug up against the gunwales, and tighten down. When used with good straps tying the canoe to the rack cross-bars (I use the cam buckle straps from Northwest River Supply), and with at least a tie-down (two are better) at the front of the car, they keep the canoe from swaying sideways about as effectively as the brackets, though not as elegantly.

Old canoes in need of restoration often lack tie-down points in or on the canoe itself – decks and thwarts are often broken, missing, or just not strong enough to trust. What to do? Use the all-purpose stand-by, of course – duct tape. Three or four wraps completely around the hull near bow and stern give you something to tie one end of your tie-down to, and Subarus have towing hooks or loops on the car frame, a bit behind the bumpers, for the other end of the tie-downs.

 

[NWL]

Everyone, Thanks so much for the awesome feedback. So many suggestions! Has anyone had any contact with these?

http://www.amazon.com/Malone-Univer...6HD0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333213135&sr=8-1

It looks to be a bit cheaper than buying a premium rack and seems to have good reviews but it might be best to not skimp on something that holds beautiful expensive boats on the roof of my car!

 

[Greg Nolan]

If your Outback has the Subaru roof rack -- and if the cross-bars of that rack are wide enough for your canoe -- they might do the trick. But the useable part of the Subaru rack is not as wide as you might think -- and any brackets such as these must fit inside the side rails that hold the cross-bars. Do some measuring to be sure that your canoe will fit between these brackets when they are mounted on the Subaru cross-bars.

I was surprised to find that my 15' OT fifty-pounder did not fit on the cross-bars of my 1999 Outback -- the side rails of the factory rack are about
32 1/2 inches apart, narrower than the gunwales at the center of the canoe (if I remember correctly, the beam of the canoe is about 35-36 in. maximum -- at the gunwales). Further, the useable width of the cross-bars is even less than the 32 1/2 inches, and where the gunwales of my canoe met the cross-bar, they did not fit properly on the cross-bars, but rested on the part of the cross-bars that connected them to the side rails -- a very insecure resting point.

These brackets might lift the canoe up just enough so gunwales would clear the side rails, if the brackets are themselves far enough apart so your canoe will fit. My guess is that it will be a very close call -- make sure you can return these brackets if they don't work out.