Bang plate on E.M.White

[Howie]

I hope to canvas an E.M.White soon. Before I do so I've been looking at its big brass bang plates and am anticipating problems reinstalling them. I'm wondering if somebody out there has some suggestions.

They were in rough shape when I took them off. Over the winter I cleaned them up, then tried to pound out the dings & dents, and used pliers to tighten up the 'V' shape. In the process I'm thinking I decreased the diameter of the plate's arc so that I now need a bit of pressure to get the plate to conform to the canoe's shape. But by doing so the plates sides bulge out in places.

There's no way little escutcheon pins are going to hold it in place. Ring nails maybe... Does someone have suggestions as to how I can reduce/eliminate these side bulges and at the same time get the thing to conform to the canoe's shape better?

Best idea I have is to take a chunk of wood and carve it to the same shape as the canoe. Then wail at it with a hammer to get the brass to stretch/compress to the shape I want.

 

[mccloud]

Howie, I had nearly the same problem, except that my stem bands were too short, so I brazed an extension on. As you suggest above, I carved a chunk of oak into the approximate shape of the stem, held it in the vise, then pounded thousands of small taps until the stem band almost conformed. Mine was never perfect, but looked OK for an 80 year old canoe. If you have a really difficult place to re-form, remember that brass is different from iron: if you heat brass and then quench it becomes softer.

 

[MGC]

Remember that forming metal is a bit counter intuitive...the form moves away from the direction that you are peening...small gentle taps...never big whacks...

 

[Norm Hein]

Hey Howie,
I'm glad you brought this up. I will be working on my E.M. White this winter ans it has the same problem. It also was patched poorly. View media item 213View media item 198

 

[Norm Hein]

I need to figure out how to post pictures without all the media stuff with them.......

 

[Howie]

MGC/Mike... So you're saying I should tap from the inside of the plate's 'V' to get the plate's arc to close up and better confirm to the prow of the canoe.
I do have some V end chisels... Guess I could grind the tip to be more rounded in both directions - I don't want to split the bang plate in half!
As it happens I'm be seeing my old machinist buddy this afternoon. I'll see what bright ideas he has.

 

[MGC]

Your machinist buddy will set you straight on straightening. Don't use anything sharp for peening...the pro's use a ball bearing where they can fit it...

 

[dtdcanoes]

HOWIE......I know the problem and the only way I found to get the fit PERFECT is this. I could get pics up or you could come by and get my blocks, or you could make your own:
Go to your scrap wood pine and find some 2x2 about 6-9" long , I think four pieces would do.; Here is the goal...you are going to use one end of these to reform the curve inside the band .
The band will sit in the expansion joint on the garage or basement floor with the upright part supported against your shoulder. ( This is the real reason they put in these joints ) The band will be cushioned underneath for, say 6", from the concrete with some thin leather so as not to take up too much of the crack's width. You have tapered the end of one the blocks about 3" down to a wedge to match the radius inside of a needy section AND you have also added a corresponding radius to the block edge that will correct the inside as you wish. I used a hammer and made sure the band was was perpendicular to the axis of the band. Otherwise you will be forming ( correcting ) too much or too little to one side or the other. As you move along the length of the band the radius on the curve will change, and too, the flare on the sides of the band will change to match up with the angle of plank to stem. That is why I made more blocks to accommodate these changes. I can tell you are really having fun and are heading for the Makers Mark. I suggest you start at the straight portion of the band with a block you have not yet formed for any curvature, and get use to the set up and the reforming. NOTE: if you add curve in reforming you will see the band close up and you can start to buckle the band. Pay attention as you may be inappropriately tightening the curve instead of matching the stem, and conversely if your block radius is not large enough, ( and you may start a crack at a nail hole ). If you are wanting to shift the band towards the stem tip to get the nails in a new spot , you may find you can do this if the curve change is not too great. You can also use these blocks to tap out some deformity at the nail hole sites.
Good luck and swear all you want and watch the Mark. OR ....order a new set of bands from Jerry drilled or not. I need a drink. Dave

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Or ask to buy my bands and oval tag stuck on a wreck i will likely never get to.....

 

[Shari Gnolek]

I need to figure out how to post pictures without all the media stuff with them.......

From someone who stumbled around trying to share images... There are two ways to add images to a post (from what I can tell).

The easy way: Add them directly to a post or reply. You should be able to find a screen shot to show how to do that here (assuming I have done it properly!):
https://wcha.org/forums/index.php?media/loading-images-to-a-post.233/

The harder way: Create an album, upload media (images) to that album, set the permissions on the album and then link the media in the album in your reply. I think that's what you may have done. With that method, what people see is dependent on how the permissions are set for that album (ex: everyone can see, only members can see, only specific people, etc.). The image I linked to above was created using this method. I made an album, put one image in it (the instructions) and then set the permissions so that everyone can see it.

I tried to add this information to the FAQ for loading images, but only moderators can modify that post.

 

[Howie]

dtcanoes: Umm... Where are you located? Anywhere close to Rochester NY? 'Cause if you are I'll use your blocks!
Assuming not... Please send pics. I think I know what you're saying but I want to be sure.

Andre: I might go for new bands if it was my canoe but this is for a fella in Florida - and we're both on a tight budget. I'll keep you in mind though - but I can tell you I'll think twice about restoring a White again. Pain in the ass!

 

[Benson Gray]

I tried to add this information to the FAQ for loading images, but only moderators can modify that post.

It is there now. Let me know if you would like any other changes. Thanks,

Benson

 

[dtdcanoes]

Shari,a great head on that labby. Howie, I'm just up the street from you. I'll send you a note. Have a nice nite. Dave

 

[Shari Gnolek]

Let me know if you would like any other changes.

For the post in the FAQ it might be more clear if the sentence "I think that's what you may have done" was removed.
Thanks for including that in that FAQ.

 

[Norm Hein]

Thanks Shari. I’ll give that a try

 

[Howie]

By the way... Should I plan on adding caulk to the inside of the bang plate when installed? I had thought to use the same stuff I use on keels - a non-silicone latex caulk. But maybe it'd be better without caulk to allow water to drain out freely. Though I suppose the same argument could be used with keels too. Thoughts?