Atlantic white cedar lumber question

[Jimbo]

Near my home in central PA, a few dozen mature Atlantic white cedar trees were recently cut and sawn into 4/4 lumber of various lengths and widths. The trees were planted many years ago as part of the landscaping for a high school football stadium complex which was recently completely demolished and removed in the name of progress. Anyway, the demo company had the trees sawn up and the wood is now for sale. I was thinking of grabbing up the clearest boards with the most vertical grain for use as rib stock. I compared the Atlantic white cedar with Northern white cedar on the USFS wood strengths chart, etc., and it seems to be comparable (if not better). Any opinions on this? Is the preferred use of NWC over AWC based on tradition and geography....or are there other differences regarding workability or durability?

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

The Alantic cedar is stronger than the white cedar but thats not a surprise. almost everything is stronger than white cedar. The Alantic is fairly rot resistant so thats not a problem but it is a bit denser and heavier than the White cedar. Because its denser, the canoe tacks can split the wood more often. Of course weight is always a concern and few extra pounds makes a lot of difference. If the price is right and if White cedar is hard to get the Alantic would not be an unreasonable choice.

 

[Jimbo]

Atlantic cedar advice and whitewater question

Great advice, thanks! The guy wants $1.25 per board foot for small amounts...but I was thinking of buying up a "boat load" and making some paneling for our den with the less than perfect stuff....smells nice!

Also, I live near Pine Creek aka the "Pennsylvania Grand Canyon" which is a spectacular Class I and II stream in northcentral PA. I'm working on a 1931 Otca CS (new canvas, some planking, inside/outside stems, rails, deck tips) and was wondering if there was any recommended "beef up" strategy to make the canoe a little tougher for the occasional scrape and bump in Class II water. I know it may be insane to use the canoe in those conditions...but I know I just wont be able to resist! The canoe already has outside stems. Maybe a heavier canvas? I've attached a few photos of Pine Creek...

 

[it's swededoc]

Jimbo,

I've had the same question for a long time. The answer I've read is that these canoes will take a better beating than most people realize. Still, I'm definitely with you on running rapids, and on the idea of building in more strength ahead of time if possible. What about some narrow 'half-ribs', but rather than stopping them at the bottom, extend them up into the hull several inches? I've never understood why they haven't done this - what can it add in weight, maybe 2 lbs?

The other thing - probably more significant is, using either dacron or a polyester/cotton mix for your fabric rather than straight cotton canvas. That's a whole other subject you can search, but seems to be very promising. I hope to be doing the same soon!
Jon

 

[Todd F]

I have a canoe with half ribs very similar as you describe. They run much higher up the inside hull than any others I have seen. Will try to post a picture.

 

[Gil Cramer]

Buy it, if it is reasonable. Use it. Morris claimed to use northern white for planking.

 

[Todd F]

 

[Todd F]

BN Morris No. 9582

 

[MGC]

My wife and I used a Morris as a camping/tripping canoe for about 35 years. I never babied it. It's a 16 footer without half ribs. It easily carries 4 or 5 days worth of gear and it's not too bad on carries. We only once encountered an issue with winds that prevented us from reaching a destination. It's been used in modest class three rapids. I once dropped it and half expected to find major damage. There was none.
A 17 would paddle better than a a 16, but 17 does add some weight.
Half ribs add a lot of weight and although several of our canoes have them, I have never felt a serious need for them.
9582 looks pretty nice......

 

[Dave Wermuth]

You're right about using heavier canvas. That would be the first priority in my opinion.