And so it begins...

[Denis M. Kallery]

Yeah but!

Just think how good you will be at removing ribs and planking and steam bending and replacing ribs and planking when you are done! Bumme, but it can be done! Good luck!! Denis

 

[Dan Miller]

I finally managed to remove the center plank of the floor "rack". And that was when I found out why this boat had that particular floor, held on in that particular way...

Ummmm. Just in case you didn't know, the Old Town square end canoes are supposed to have a keelson. They have a v-section hull, the keelson essentially defines the shape of the bottom, and the ribs are put on in halves... too late now, but probably would have been best to have left the keelson in. Shouldn't be too hard to put back after you've cleaned up. Set it in place and brace it lightly from the thwarts. Turn it over and remove the garboards. Nail the ribs back down to the keelson, then re-install the garboards. Piece of cake!

 

[Denis M. Kallery]

A learning experience

Well that is why Dan is a expert and I am not - but hey we're learning.
Denis

 

[nmerrill]

Wow, wait a minute! Dan, do you mean that this boat was built with ribs with a seam in the middle??
That would be a great revelation to me! I figured this was repair work!
Not all of them are - mixed in along the bottom, some of them are one piece- in no particular order.
Which part are you refering to as the Keelson?
Earlier in the thead, I showed pictures of the keel, which no one thought was original.
And no one thought that the planks on the floor were original either (see eariler pictures).
The center plank I removed was held on with not-particularly-evenly placed brass screws, and a lot of rusty *steel* nails about 1 inch long. Not really what I thought was craftsman-ly work.
Anyway, please tell me more good news,
please!
Thanks!

 

[Blue Viking]

Just had to throw in another couple of pennies worth on this subject. I have restored a Sebago Lake wood and canvas boat and they were constructed similar to the Old Town Square sterns, which I helped my friend just redo!....Two piece ribs held in place with the keelson and the those short spacer ribs (half ribs) and the keelson is held in place with screws to the keel. hardest part of that is lining up the keel to attach it after you have re-canvassed and filled it...Not rocket science!....patience is the answer!....
But then, my saying is: No canoe can ever be a true restoration unless someone has figured a way to use the same piece of canvas!...If I was rebuilding for my own use, then some small alterations from original that would make it more attractive to my eye, then I would do it. If it was to restore for someone else, then attention to detail is a must...But then, I am not in this to make a living.
"its not how many strokes of the paddle it takes to get there, rather it is the Joy that is in the journey"
PS!....I found that both were in a very fragile state with the keel and keelson removed..but canvassing went well and brought the rigidity back, filled, and Then re-attached the keel and keelson. Planking and clinched nails held them both to shape, and used the upside down method to re-canvas with 3 stands...Good luck Why not strip it now with all the interior stuff out?

 

[Dan Miller]

nmerrill, the keelson is the bit of wood that runs the length of the canoe on the inside bottom. The keel is on the outside. I have no doubt the keel itself was a replacement. The two "floorboards" on either side of the keelson were atypical, and probably later additions. It is also possible the keelson was replaced at some point, but I can't say for sure. I've attached some photos showing how the Square End canoes typically look. Sorry they are on the small side.

Steel fasteners are not all that uncommon in old canoes (not desirable from a restorer's standpoint, but common nonetheless). Wartime canoes especially have lots of steel, as the brass was diverted to the manufacture of munitions.

Blue, since the keelson is such an important structural part of these boats, I can't imagine not reinstalling the keelson prior to canvassing - how else do you fasten the ends of the ribs properly? The keelson holds the keel in place, not the other way round...

 

[Dan Miller]

But then, my saying is: No canoe can ever be a true restoration unless someone has figured a way to use the same piece of canvas!...

That would be 'preservation', not necessarily 'restoration'.

 

[Blue Viking]

Ooops! Stand corrcted Dan.....I did attach the keelson on both prior to canvasing!................Like that term "PRESERVATION".....kinda describes me preserved but not pickled

 

[nmerrill]

Thanks for the further info Dan, and I hope I can extract some more form the list.
BTW, I removed the "keelson" because I have a few cracked ribs that need replacement, and I assumed that the ribs were one piece.
Would you typically replace half ribs without removing the keelson?

A few more questions then.
Many of the half ribs are two pieces also - would this be expected? Seems like a weak design!

Might the ribs (and half ribs) that are not 2 pieces be replacements?

This boat hardly appears to be a V-section Hull... it is actually rather flat from mid section to stern, and that is not because the keel and keelson were removed.
Pictures 1 and 2 are the best views I have handy to illustrate that. Also, back on page 2 is the long shot of the floor rack which also sort of shows how flat it is. Very different look than those that you posted.
Could this be a result of attaching a much wider - and flat - keelson which flattened the hull over the years? Or even storage position?
Actually, The Old town catalog page I have indicates that the Square end paddleing canoe "Shape and general dimensions follow the regular 20 ft Guides Special except the legnths are shorter..."
Was the Guides special a V-section hull?
Thanks again!

 

[nmerrill]

Bump...!

Withdrawal symptoms were getting serious!
I would really love some more input on this project - still not sure what I'm dealing with!
Anyone?

 

[Mike Heines]

1905 Old Town spnson

I agree with Dan. When I took apart and recanvassed my 1905 old Town sponson a few years ago, the sponson were canvassed all the way around. It was like refurbishing one large canoe and two small ones...No keel, by the way. She turns very well under sail.

 

[nmerrill]

Mike, Was yours built like a v-hull with a keelson down the middle and two piece ribs? See my last post to this thread before the crash for specifics.
Anyone else have experience with an Old Town "paddling model" ?
Thanks!

 

[Michael Grace]

I'm finishing up an 18' square stern with sponsons right now, and though I didn't remove the keelson, many of the ribs are obviously in two pieces because the rib grain is radically different on each side of the hull's midline. This is clearly the way this boat was initially constructed- it has had no major repairs done on it in the past.

 

[Mike Heines]

single whole ribs

My '05 Sponson has single, whole ribs. Probably the usual for the shorter lengths.

Mike