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reinforcement for cedar strip with extra footbal or scrap design?

Discussion in 'Strippers, Stitch-n-Glue, and Other Wood Composite' started by sjmoore69, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    reinforcement for cedar strip with extra football or scrap design?

    Hello all, I am halfway into my first cedar strip. Well...let's say partway. It's a 16' wabnaki from Gilpatrick's second edition. I designed a few features for looks and have everything I need to finish, buy I am now worried that the star pattern in the bottom will be too weak structurally. Here is a picture of my bottom design. DSCF2968a.jpg
    I don't want to scrap this piece because it matches the ornate decks I have already carved.
    My concern is that the center point will be weak and lend itself to failure. I have already purchased the epoxy and 150' of 6oz fiberglass. My plan was to put a football and full sheet both inside and out. Will this be enough or should I consider half-ribs or additional layers of glass?
    Thanks for all of the useful information on this forum. It has been an invaluable asset.
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
  2. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    The structural strength for a strip & glass hull comes primarily from the fiberglass, not the wood, so I wouldn't expect the star to be much of an issue -- especially with the two layers of cloth on either side of it.

    But how are you going to bend this to the curve of the hull?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    It is only 21" wide and the beam of the wabnaki wil accommodate it. I used a slight bevel on the inside edges of the star. I made extra station molds for the middle of the canoe and mounted it on them for the glue-up. It is almost a perfect fit when I lay it on the strongback. I anticipated plenty of fairing so I made the star ( and my strips) just under 5/16".My original design was for a 19'6" canoe but I didn't have access to a shop large enough so I cut all of my 21' lumber down to 17' and chose the wabnaki. My biggest regret so far is carving the decks for the larger canoe but will now have to cut them down to fit in this canoe. DSCF1643a.jpg
    The star pattern is carved into the cross. I am about 90 percent finished with the decks.
     
  4. Ghyslain

    Ghyslain New Member

    Howdy,
    That is really some beautiful carving for the decks! I have looked several times at the Wabnaki, but have elected to build his 16 foot river canoe with the heavy rocker. It will be my second canoe this spring. Best of luck.....Ghyslain
     
  5. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks and best of luck with the river model. I wanted a river model for sugar creek in Indiana but decided most of my paddling will be on the Tennessee river here in Alabama. No rapids here but some good fishing. I am going to cut my teeth so to speak with this first try and hope my wife lets me build another next year. I own a sawmill and have about 9000bf of cedar, walnut, and cherry still waiting to be cut. Be sure to post some pics. I love to see a piece of beauty come out of someone's blood, sweat, tears, and determination.
    steve
     
  6. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I got some feature strips ready to go. I don't know what kind of wood it is because when I got my sawmill to it, the limbs and leaves were already removed and burned. It smells like A$$. I was told it was an English Ash but the butt was well over 3' diameter and I couldn't confirm. The European Ash I researched didn't have the same bark texture so perhaps I'll never know. I don't know if this thing will float, but it sure will be pretty.
    Steve
    feature 2.jpg
     
  7. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Got a few more strips on the Wabnaki. This stapleless method is very time consuming. Next time I'm definitely using staples.
    Steve
    DSCF3063a.jpg
     
  8. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Looking good!
     
  9. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Progress is very, very slow. I have been surfing the entire web and checking out the stapled strippers and they look just fine to me. Alas, I am committed to staple-free and I am bound and determined to see this through. Luckily, I have a lot of clamps. It's not pretty but "Ya gotta do what Ya gotta do", right?
    I'm hoping to get it in the water by the end of May.
    We'll see.
    Steve
    DSCF3206a.jpg DSCF3196a.jpg DSCF3203a.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  10. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Got to work on the Wabnaki a couple of times and finished stripping. The star pattern turned out well and I am pleased with it. I faired it with a small xacto draw knife and sanded with some 60 grit on an orbital for about 4 hours. I used cleats, clamps, ratchet straps, and hot glue to keep the strips in contact with the stations but there were a couple of spots where the blue 3M tape I used separated from the stations and allowed the strips to lift off about 1/4".There were about 10 small gaps and knot holes which I filled with epoxy, silica, and cedar flour. I am going to sand those smooth in a few days when I get some more free time.

    I pulled the 6oz glass out of the box to cut some stem reinforcement strips and discovered several separations in the weave at the beginning of the roll(150').
    If I find more spots like this in the middle of the roll, should I cut a fresh piece or try to coax the fibers back in line and epoxy over them?
    Steve
    DSCF3296a.jpg DSCF3320a.jpg
     
  11. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    I'm really surprised that somebody would send out glass cloth with that sort of problems. If they extend farther than the very beginning, I'd call them and complain. If you find others you could always try to massage them back into place and see what you get. Wear gloves, because you don't want to get skin oils on the cloth and the tool of choice might be something like a toothpick, combined with putting bias tension on the area from one direction and then the other. Or....cut around them if you have enough cloth.

    It's hard to get good help. :) Once in a while I'll unroll a new roll of sailcloth and find a big Vibram footprint in the middle of it.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    sjmoore69

    sjmoore69 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    maiden voyage

    DSCF6219a.jpg DSCF6184a.jpg DSCF6116a.jpg
    I ended up carving new decks as the ones for the 20' canoe couldn't be trimmed to fit without destroying the design.
    We got to take her out today and it was great. The most enjoyable part was watching my sons marvel at the wonders of the water.
    I might have 250hrs in the customized wabnaki but I don't regret having put the extra time in and I hope we can spend twice that on the water.
    Thanks for all of your help.
    Steve
     
  13. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    IMG_0463.jpg
    Nice work !
    Enjoyed your posts as well.

    Jim
     

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