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1949 Penn Yan -Start of restoration

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Ryan Scott, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Benson and Gil thanks for your input so far. Attached are some pics of the screw heads. I found an old article in the forums that had lots of info on these 'Reed and Prince' screws.

    Finally got this canoe shipped to the west coast and will be restoring it. We covered this thing in fiberglass as kids in the early 80's. Will be going through the removal process as soon as I can assure of keeping its shape, or adjusting it as Benson pointed out, more rocker than likely built in originally. Over all I am surprised how intact it is. It hasn't been floated in 25 years, just been sitting outside under partial cover, barley off the ground if at all. Sorta glad I thought fiberglass was the way to go back then.

    My idea so far is to;
    - Clean up the interior -Strip clean ribs/planking of old varnish with heat gun.
    treat wood as needed
    rebuild decks, inwales
    Ribs look good so far
    - Strip fiberglass
    repair an old repair done with 'wood' of questionable reliability
    - Re-canvas
    Paddle happily away!!!
    That easy...right????

    Any and all advice, questions, remarks (smart A or otherwise) greatly looked forward to.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    Ryan, I would start by submerging the canoe for a few days, pulling the canoe back to its proper beam , and removing the fiberglass with a heat gun while the canoe is still wet. Pulling the canoe to its proper beam will remove much of the excess rocker now in the canoe. Next I would chemically strip the interior. (Actually, I have a furniture stripper do it.) The chemical stripper will remove a lot of the old fiberglass resin left on the exterior and between the planking.

    Once the interior is stripped, the decks, inwales, stem tips,thwarts, ribs, and planking can be repaired or replaced. After the woodwork is completed and before canvassing, I stain and varnish the interior, and oil and varnish the exterior.
     
  3. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    Ryan, Gil is right about submerging, etc. (Gil is always right).. Get it wet wet wet for up to a week, get the glass off with heat gun and the shape back and then proceed.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    After spending some time browsing Dragonfly Canoe's great site I came across this picture among the stickers and decals. Though my picture has little to compare to the size and colors seem to be a perfect match. Maybe I'll have to try to have one made as I get closer to finishing this project. 8.30.12 028.JPG PennYanSticker.jpg
     
  5. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    Penn Yan decals were available not too long ago, but I'm not certain that they still are.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    They were available where?
     
  7. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    Doug Nichols of Nichols Restorations in the Penn Yan area did have them for sale.
     
  8. David McDaniel

    David McDaniel Canoe Dude

    The last contact number and address that I have for Doug Nichols is: 3722 Rt. 54A Branchport N.Y. 14418, phone- 315-595-2576.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    View attachment 23828 View attachment 23829 View attachment 23829 The stripping process is coming right along. Been using a heat gun to take of the bulk of varnish and some 'Eco' varnish stripper to remove what was left. Coming out nice and clean so far. Getting up into the bow and stern looks a little bit challenging; as in 'How the #%@**#! do I get in there?

    Starting to think about how I can submerge this in my pond as suggested earlier. Problem with my pond is that there are no real shallows. More of a kettle pond, drops straight down to 15'+. Making recover of submerged craft interesting. T rescue anyone??

    These picture show the heat gun results and the discovery of another cracked rib. I think that may be the fifth or sixth.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Gil and David,

    Any idea which versions Doug might of had?

    Dan
     
  11. David McDaniel

    David McDaniel Canoe Dude

    Dan, The last I knew, he had a few different versions. But it has been a while since I have had contact with him.

    .....Dave
     
  12. T Michel

    T Michel Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Greetings Ryan, and Dave and Gil,
    You might also contact the folks at Penn Yan for new production decals. They were working on that when I worked on my Kingfisher. The screws (and driver points) are available as frearson heads, either from Jamestown or another source would be Top Notch Fasteners. The later also has the correct washers for the keel screws. If you are still stripping the inside, I recommend Citrus Strip. Smells like orange juice and looks like it as well. Its supposedly environmentally friendly. Followed by Snappy Teak Nu as a two part bleach, the inside should come up fairly clean. Ted Michel
     
  13. Gil Cramer

    Gil Cramer The wooden canoe Shop, Inc.

    I still have at least one set of PY decals. A set includes the deck decal and a decal for each side of the boat, forward of the transom. All of the canoes that I've seen only used the deck decal. Contact me by PM if you are interested.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Penn Yann restoration -Sinking/soaking

    Well the stripping of the interior is complete. Used the heat gun to remove the majority of the old varnish. Cut a plastic scrapper to fit the nooks and crannies. Then used Super Deck Exterior Stripper 1460 to clean it all up real nice. The stripper is rather benign, no smell, cleaned up with water. Left the wood nice and clean. May use TE-KA wood cleaner to finish it up.
    I am on to the next step, as suggested I sunk it in my pond and will leave it there for a number of days. Expect to begin peeling fiberglass this weekend. Hope to be able to pull it back into true form, less rocker.
    After that I'll replace a few sections of planking that were repaired with what appears to be a small section of fiberboard.

    I believe gunwales were probably Ash, not sure about the decks, any ideas????
    Been reading all the conflicting thoughts and issues on treatment of planks and filler recipes. Still have some time to digest all of it and looking forward to discussing it further with all interested parties.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Ryan,

    Look on the top of the stems for a S/N, it should either start with a letter code, if it's 1947 or older, it will be something something and either S for spruce or M for mahogany. But per Dan's site, after 47 they dropped the 3rd letter, so you may not have it.

    But the rails should be either spruce or mahogany.

    In my case, my S/N is ONS 62, for Owasco, 16 ft and spruce rails. Most of the other trim; decks, seat frames and thwarts, is maple.

    Dan
     
  16. OP
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    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Dan my serial number FX 49138, presumable built in 1949. No indication of a model type. I have not been able to locate much information on Penn Yan so not familar with what wood they likely used. The outer gunwale was long ago destroyed and the original inner is certainly not mahogany, way to soft and decayed, so spruce it may be. Seems like ash would be a better outer rail than spruce. Could not add that much weight. the thwarts are still solid but do not seem to be mahogany so maybe it is maple. This canoe came without seats but I think I'll be putting in some and like the idea of using maple for these and the replacement decks I'll be making.
     
  17. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Your canoe is Penn Yan's Carry Canoe (model FX). It was built to be an extra-light model - they claimed only 44 pounds. The 1949 catalog specifies spruce for gunwales and mahogany for decks, seats and thwarts. If I were restoring it, that is what I would use to keep the weight down.

    Catalog page from 1949 attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. OP
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    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    thanks Dan, I actually now remember you posting that page for me some time back. Must not have printed it to put in my files. Thanks again. I have some great Sitka spruce available in long lengths and mahogany is easy enough to get too.
    What I am trying to decide on now is the placement of seats which would require me to move the existing thwarts to a new location. I suppose I can just eye it from the catalog picture but some measurements would be nice...anyone????? Does anyone know how the seats were hung in this model. As much as I like the kneeling position for paddling I must admit that a seat can feel awfully nice after a few hours on the water and since this model came with them, I'm sure my grandfather would understand.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Ryan Scott

    Ryan Scott Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Fiberglass removal

    Pulled the canoe out of the pond and got right to the removal of the fiberglass. The main layer pulled up quick, (6 hrs), and easy with the heat gun. The remaining layer is more tedious. May try some kind of remover to soften it up quicker than the heat and scraper.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Ryan,
    You may want to try a top quality paint remover. I've had some luck with it attacking older types of resin.
    Dave
     

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