Very Old Town

[Peter Young]

I'm beginning to think I might have one of the oldest Old Town canoes out there, and I'm hoping the experts here can help confirm or deny that belief. The serial number is stamped the same at both ends - "793 17". My father contacted Old Town about this canoe when he purchased it from a friend in the early 1960s, and we still have the letter that Old Town sent back, dated July 15, 1964. In that letter they stated that this canoe is "over 60 years old and our records this far back unfortunately are incomplete."

I'm wondering a couple of things;

- What is the oldest known serial number?
- How can I identify which model this is?

If I understand correctly from the digging I've done on this site and others, the only 17' models they made in those very early years were either the HW or the Charles River. The width is about 36" and the depth about 12". The length is 17' which matches the stamped numbers.

It's currently hanging in the garage in a very difficult-to-photograph position, so I will not be able to take good photos until later in the week.

Thanks for any assistance.

-Pete

 

[Dave Osborn]

Yes, Pete...
More photos will help. We can verify that it is in fact an Old Town.
Often wood/canvas canoes get labeled Old Town when they are really from another builder...the same as all colas are called Coke..

 

[Benson Gray]

- What is the oldest known serial number?
- How can I identify which model this is?

The oldest known Old Town serial number on a canoe is 201 as described and shown at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?11487 (depending on how you define your terms). The model was identified in this case by the dimensions since there are no known build records from that era.

The lowest numbered build record is 1604 as shown and described at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?455-Ebay-canoe&p=2274#post2274 with some other old records.

The widest 17 foot long canoe that Old Town listed in their early catalogs was the IF (Indian Fishing) model. It started at 32.5 inches wide in 1901 and grew to 34 inches in 1902. It later became known as the guide model and the 17 foot version was last listed in the 1909 catalog (at 34.5 inches wide). Their XX model was probably wider but they never listed the dimensions of this model in any catalog.

Most of the canoes with three digit serial numbers turn out to be from Charles River area builders so some pictures of the decks and other details would help as Dave mentioned. Thanks,

Benson

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Not to burst your bubble but there were many manufacturers, and Old Town wouldn't have second-guessed an owner's conclusion that their canoe was an Old Town. Old Town sent many people build records for canoes that later turned out to be from other manufacturers. They had no reason to doubt that a canoe they hadn't seen was indeed an Old Town. So if it turns out not to be an Old Town, be happy that you've still got an interesting old wooden canoe. And who knows - it could turn out to be something very interesting.

By the way, the serial number font looks very different from Benson's #201. Benson - is this the same canoe that was hanging in the museum there for a long time? I remember seeing one of these there - green, Indian Old Town tag... Same canoe?

 

[Benson Gray]

By the way, the serial number font looks very different from Benson's #201. Benson - is this the same canoe that was hanging in the museum there for a long time? I remember seeing one of these there - green, Indian Old Town tag... Same canoe?

I agree that the font looks different from the confirmed Old Towns with low numbers as shown below. However, there was a fair amount of variation.

There are many green canoes hung up on display in the Old Town area but I don't believe that my Indian Old Town was ever shown other than at an auction in 2010. My guess is that you are thinking of the one shown at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?13248 in the Old Town Canoe Company factory store.

Hopefully more pictures will show some other distinctive characteristics.

Benson

 

[Peter Young]

Well, you guys certainly know your stuff. I got the canoe down today and immediately noticed the decks...shaped like an arrowhead! So...St. Louis Meramec?

Can you confirm? Any idea on the age or other info?

I should explain some of what you see in the photos. The center was patched where a sailing rig originally existed (none of the sailing equipment came with the canoe when purchased used in the early 60s). Cedar with copper nails were used and the patch held up just fine over 25 years of use. The slat seat is not original and there used to be two seats. A restoration was started in the late 80s but was never completed, so you'll see excess canvas in many of the photos. All of the pieces and hardware appear to be present.

 

[Dave Osborn]

Wally Hauck is our St. Louis expert... He should pop in on this soon.

 

[Walter Hauck]

Hi Pete: Welcome to the family of Arrowhead owners! I saw your post of your stem number. I thought it was an Arrowhead---has the right letter style and white oak stems---but I wanted to see more photos to confirm. Your number of 793-17 puts it at 1936, built by the St. Louis Boat and Canoe Company
(new ownership for St. Louis Meramac Canoe company). The photo of the mahogany thwart is interesting. Are there any other mahogany pieces on the canoe? Did it have holes where handles used to be, close to the decks? It's normal to have the outwales cut with scarfs on both sides. I've only seen one with continuous outwales. Looks like a good canoe. Would love to see more pics. Wally in St. Louis: 314-421-9966