Should I replace these planks?

[pipeandscarf]

Morning,

I'm working on my Chestnut prospector and noticed some of the planks are cracked and damaged. This is my first cedar canvas canoe project and I'm not sure if I could pull these planks out and replace or if they are OK. Are with the grain cracks ok? cracks that go across the plank are bad (from what I've gathered). I generally err on the side of replace it but any advice is welcome.


This has a hole, I plan on replacing this small plank. Good idea, bad idea?

Where the pencil is pointing is soft from the crack.

These two are the ones I'm not sure about. There are two planks with some cracking (impact damage?). I'm considering cutting the plank at the damage point as it is a long plank and I'm concerned it could be difficult to steam bend.

same as above, you can kind of see the pencil lines where I could cut the planks.

Maarsii,
Dave

 

[mccloud]

Replacing all that planking at this stage of the restoration is really not a difficult job. If you only do a patch but see a divot or bulge thru the canvas, you'll be unhappy and its too late to fix. For your first picture, cut out a length that is 3-ribs wide, i.e. one full rib in the middle and to the mid point of the next two. Cut the old wood with a razor knife, then pull tacks, remove the old wood and fit the new. In the second photo, I agree. It's already a short piece spanning only 5 ribs. Carefully pull old tacks and fit in new wood. Third & fourth - I'd replace wood at both places. Looks like both could be 3-rib patches. In the 4th photo, I'd go inboard to where there is already a joint, then forward of the crack and make the cut at the half-rib. Fitting planking that has to be twisted can be a challenge. Do an approximate fit for length and width, then soak the wood. Tack it onto the inboard end, then run a hot iron over it so the wood is steaming wet and hot, then push it into place, using a razor knife to trim an edge if necessary, and get a few tacks into it before it has a chance to dry. I would pre-drill (1/16") all brass tack holes. Yes, wet wood expands so the fit should be tight. The wood will shrink a bit when dry. Others here will have other opinions, but that is how I'd do the repair.
Tom McCloud

 

[pipeandscarf]

Is planking with western red cedar a reasonable option. Out in Western Canada it is difficult (nearly impossible) to find Eastern white cedar. I saw another post implying it is possible. Thoughts?

I have a potential connection for Eastern white cedar but I'm concerned the planks are going to be $$ compared to more readily available western red cedar.

 

[mccloud]

Hundreds of thousands of wood/canvas canoes have been built with western red cedar planking. No reason you should not use it too. Tom McCloud

 

[pipeandscarf]

Thanks for the insight, appreciated.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

My research on the Morris Company shows that in the first decade of the 20th century, the B.N. Morris Company of Veazie, Maine, was buying Western red cedar from Washington State because there wasn't enough Eastern white available at reasonable cost to meet their needs. It's likely the majority of Morris canoes were planked in red. This would be true for other major builders as well-- hence, as Tom says, hundreds of thousands of wood/canvas canoes have Western red cedar planking. You're considering the cost of Eastern white cedar, just as builders did 100 years ago.

Keep us in the loop in regard to your progress!

Kathy

 

[pipeandscarf]

Update:


pulled off some of the planks



3 broken ribs so far, should be fun steaming up the replacements.
I have a local connection with a canoe builder, he's going to stop by and take a look and help me find good lumber.

 

[mccloud]

You are right that new ribs of white cedar is the best way to go. However, if those cracks are hard to find on the inside (i.e. wood not broken all the way thru), then doing backsplices is possible. To stay busy in the meantime, you can begin pulling tacks out of broken ribs, and save those ribs as 'molds'. Some folks pull tacks from the outside, others grind the clinched portion off then pop the heads out with a prick punch. Tom McCloud

 

[MGC]

Is planking with western red cedar a reasonable option. Out in Western Canada it is difficult (nearly impossible) to find Eastern white cedar. I saw another post implying it is possible. Thoughts?

As already noted, red cedar is used, has been used, does work for planking...Old Town built all of it's boats with red cedar....

From my perspective the question you should be asking is "should I use red cedar planking on this boat"?
I believe that the answer to that should be no...

It looks like your Chestnut is planked in white cedar...every Chestnut I have ever seen or owned is....
In my opinion you need to re-plank with white cedar...
It is very hard to color match old wood with new wood...it will be even more difficult (impossible?) to make new red cedar look like it belongs in your boat.
It will not (again, my personal view) look good if you blend red and white on your hull.
Obviously the red cedar will be perfectly functional and you may even decide that you like the idea of making your repairs stand out...these are personal choices that we make when we restore old boats... whether you are doing the boat for your own use or restoring it with a plan to eventually resell it could influence how you proceed...
From my perspective, if I looked at a restored boat and saw red and white cedar mixed I would think that it was an odd choice and either walk away from it because of that or make plans to fix it next time the canvas comes off for a repair... I would certainly beat the seller up over it and drive their price down because of it.....!
In the grand scheme of things, spending a few hundred dollars for the right wood seems like the better choice for the posterity of the boat. Given that these are good hulls and somewhat desirable it seems worthwhile to repair it properly.
Mike

 

[Paul Scheuer]

Pipeandscarf:

I gather that you only discovered the broken ribs after removing the damaged planking. That made me a little nervous, since I had replaced a few planking sections on my Morris. Nothing as severe as what you have, but your experience convinced me to take a very close look at all of the ribs where a partially broken one might be hiding. Especially at the edges of the mating surfaces, where there appeared to be impact damage to the planking. Fortunately, I found no cracked ribs.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

If it were mine, I'd use white cedar, ie, use that ever the manufacturer used.
(For me the exception to this is trim and if the canoe is for me, and all mine are)
I have no problem upgrading trim to cherry or mahogany.

Dan

 

[pipeandscarf]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and insight.

I'm leaning towards white cedar for lots of reasons, just waiting on meeting up with someone for a lumber connection. I like the idea of upgrading to cherry trim but that is likely a month or two away. Being in Saskatchewan, Canada there is a lot of useful and interesting wood around here. I'm hoping to use some local lumber for some of the trim - at least the deck and vee stern.


Unrelated to the planking, I was looking for serial numbers, etc. I found this on the stem.
I tried taking a photo but the pencil rubbing turned out better.



Kind of cool, the canoe is in fact 16' long and a prospector. I'd assume the first 4 numbers are a serial or builder's number.