ser # 239
- Thread starter bellacard
- Start date
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Hi Arthur-- Let me be the first to say, "we love pictures!" Sounds like a wonderful canoe. Welcome to the Forums!
Kathy
Kathy
Greg Nolan
enthusiast
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
What a beautiful canoe! Those who know the Charles River builders will eventually weigh-in. You may already have checked the archives of these forums and found various discussions... here's a good one, with some interesting Robertson history:
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?10940-Another-Mystery-Canoe&highlight=robertson
Does your canoe have the wide seat-thwart?
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?10940-Another-Mystery-Canoe&highlight=robertson
Does your canoe have the wide seat-thwart?
These long-decked Charles River canoes leave me baffled. Could be a Robertson, or a number of others from the Charles River. Not likely to be an Old Town though. Ken is our resident long-deck specialist so hopefully he will chime in.
It looks like your canoe has torpedo stems - these don't appear until the 19-teens.
It looks like your canoe has torpedo stems - these don't appear until the 19-teens.
it was restored by old town in 1998, their letter says it was probably built prior to 1898 by old town or the 1st year of old towns operation....and the ser. # 239 on stem...
With all due respect to Old Town, I believe them to be incorrect.
Dan
Dan
no wide seat..it has an old town like press in cane seat...could have been retro-fitted during restoration?
Certainly a pressed cane seat could have been installed during restoration. It is a whole lot faster than repairing and re-caning a seat by hand.
No, there are no records for Robertson, nor any of the other Charles River builders, that are known to survive. Most, if not all, of the CR builders marked their canoes with serial numbers.
No, there are no records for Robertson, nor any of the other Charles River builders, that are known to survive. Most, if not all, of the CR builders marked their canoes with serial numbers.
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
We have records for Old Town, Carleton (because they were bought by Old Town) and Kennebec (because the records were donated to a museum that permitted us to share them).
Some records are known to exist for Shell Lake (they are in a Wisconsin museum) and some of the Wickett-built canoes of Missouri (due to diligence of WCHA members). Some canoes have serial numbers with clues regarding build-year... but records per se are a rarity.
Some records are known to exist for Shell Lake (they are in a Wisconsin museum) and some of the Wickett-built canoes of Missouri (due to diligence of WCHA members). Some canoes have serial numbers with clues regarding build-year... but records per se are a rarity.
H.E. Pennypacker
LOVES Wooden Canoes
Arthur - there are no known serial number records for Robertson or other Charles River area canoe builders. Robertson is a good guess for your canoe, but so is Waltham and maybe others like Arnold. As already said, OT was surely wrong about age - yours is surely from several decades later, but that's okay. These are wonderful canoes no matter what the age. Pressed cane is not original. There could have been a hand-caned seat, but more likely your canoe had wide mahogany sitting/kneeling thwarts. Some of these had a very wide, sculpted mahogany thwart. If yours did, you should be able to find multiple bolts or bolt holes in the gunwales where it would have been. Your backrest is likely original to the canoe - it is a Charles River area backrest. Those builders made several different styles, but this is one of them.
it's a pretty low ser #...maybe from the teens or 20's?
Kathryn Klos
squirrel whisperer
Unfortunately, the only way to know if that is a low serial number for its builder is to identify its builder and then find as many canoes by that builder as possible and compare serial numbers and details of construction. Probably the best you can do is to inspect for details that might narrow down the builder a bit more... such as H.E.'s suggestion re looking for bolts or bolt-holes.
With these lovely courting canoes, there is no rule that "older is better". They got fancier over time-- the ends stretched out and decks grew longer. These canoes changed the way automobile-styles would change to appeal to public taste. A gentleman wanted something flashy to impress his city-born lady.
There are many Charles River courting canoes owned by WCHA members who'd LOVE to have more exact information on them, but for many, even nailing-down the builder has been impossible and that's one reason we speak of these canoes as a group most of the time.
The WCHA National Assembly featured the Charles River canoe a few years back, and you can find a nice discussion of them in an issue of Wooden Canoe. There are many pictures and discussions here in the forums. More folks may chime-in too.
Kathy
With these lovely courting canoes, there is no rule that "older is better". They got fancier over time-- the ends stretched out and decks grew longer. These canoes changed the way automobile-styles would change to appeal to public taste. A gentleman wanted something flashy to impress his city-born lady.
There are many Charles River courting canoes owned by WCHA members who'd LOVE to have more exact information on them, but for many, even nailing-down the builder has been impossible and that's one reason we speak of these canoes as a group most of the time.
The WCHA National Assembly featured the Charles River canoe a few years back, and you can find a nice discussion of them in an issue of Wooden Canoe. There are many pictures and discussions here in the forums. More folks may chime-in too.
Kathy
thanks for all the info....I found where the wide seat-thwarts were originally....no markings on ribs.....what about the stamps on the stems themselves?...are there different fonts and or number styles?......it has a 16 as well indicating length of course...looks very much like the other robertsons I've seen...are there any other distinctions like stem shape or bolts or anything? gunwale style?..keel shape?..rib shape?..
Yes, but the stamps were often owned by the employee as part of their personal collection of tools and carried with them as they moved from one company to another (which was quite common). The same is true for most of the individual distinctions in construction techniques. These typically aren't reliable as a unique indicator of any particular manufacturer so the canoes without tags are simply described as Charles River area style canoes. Sorry,
Benson
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