Question about plans

[Kunk35]

I'm going to purchase plans for a cedar strip canoe but I'm finding close to a 40 dollar difference between online stores for the same set of plans. Are there any differences here I should be aware of or are they truly the same plans? If so, why would there be so much of a variance in pricing?

Kory

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

There could be a difference in the mark-up between different retail sources, but that big of a difference may indicate that one set comes with full-size prints for the building forms and the other may not. What is the boat in question and where are the plans coming from?

 

[Kunk35]

It's the Redbird 17'6. Bear Mountain is 85, a place called Clark Craft is 45. Bear Mountain specifically says it includes full size drawings for the station molds, stems, profile and section shape of the hull. On the Clark Craft site, I can't find that specific of what it includes, so it's possible they don't include as much detail. Not trying to be cheap, but I don't want to spend more money for the same thing.

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

Hard to say. It does appear to be the same boat and the Clark Craft site says "Plans and Patterns" which would seem to indicate that you might also get the full-sized form patterns. You could always e-mail Bear Mountain and ask what they include that Clark Craft does not, and I think Joan would probably give you a straight answer. Maybe they throw in a copy of Ted's book as an instruction manual????? Probably best to go straight to the horse's mouth and ask them. In any case, it should make a very pretty stripper. As I remember, the Redbird is a little bit twitchy at first, but a good performer once you've had a chance to get familiar with it.

 

[Kunk35]

I appreciate the reply and for checking it out for me. I think I'll take your advice and just email both for more info.

Kory

 

[Kunk35]

I had a great conversation with a gentleman named Ron today about Bear Mountain boats and he gave me some very good reasons to purchase my plans and materials from them. That's the route I will be going. In fact, I ordered the plans already. I can't wait till my boy gets started. (He is building this in his high school shop class)

 

[charltons]

Sadly , most schools in my district have done away with shop. Todd is right, the Redbird does feel a little tippy, but it's fast. I've had mine for around 12 years and only tipped once (when my son used the gunwale as a launching pad). The high ends look cool, but they do catch a lot of wind. I purchased mine from Bear Mountain and they were very easy to follow.

 

[Kunk35]

That's a pet peeve of mine. Let's pour tons of money into sports programs, which, I'll acknowledge, gives participants a team attitude to a point, but nothing else. Put them in shop and teach them how to create something and you are giving them the means to a life long income. Our city just approved an 82 MILLION dollar school bond to update and build new schools, and the shop at the new school is actually smaller than the one they have now. Totally pathetic. At the same time, they are building a 4 MILLION dollar stadium for high school football. Also pathetic.

Rant over....

 

[charltons]

I agree. I am a teacher and I seemany kids lured by promises of scouts, scholarships, etc most won't get, But in a shop program all can learn a trade. End of my rant

 

[Greg Nolan]

Training for a trade is not the only value for shop classes -- the skills taught in shop are useful for many who have to keep old houses together, and beyond simple usefulness, such skills can be a source of lifelong enjoyment.

The schools I attended never had shop, but I had the good fortune to have a mechanic for a neighbor when I was in my teens, and I also did odd jobs for a high school shop teacher who was building his own house and sometimes needed another set of hands. Both taught me skills that I did not learn as an English major or in law school, but which I have used regularly all my adult life -- including when I work on canoes.

 

[Larry Meyer]

This is a hearty amen to the sentiment that our public schools are way too invested in a few expensive sports. At our winter meeting we had a very interesting presentation on the Compass Project in Portland. Me. Larry Pixley gives a lot of time to it and they have lately started building canoes. The programs uses boatbuilding to develop learning skills among kids in schools who are having a hard time connecting classroom to life skills. A similar program has started up in Boston lately.
So few kids get a chance to build anything from start to finish these days.
http://compassproject.org/site/ by

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

With a little guidance, kids can do some neat stuff. I did a little consulting work a few years for a church group. They wanted to strip-build some fur-trade semi replica canoes and take a trip in them. We went through existing canoe plans looking for one that would essentially blow up to proper capacity and stability paramaters and had stems that could be modified for the right sort of look. We finally settled on the Bear Mountain Freedom 17 and stretched them to something like 24'-25' long. I upgraded the scantlings to be reasonably heavy-duty and then the kids and some parents went to work. This is what they built.

 

[Kunk35]

Wow Todd, those are HUGE! And they look fantastic! I'll bet they had a blast building them and I'm sure it's a time they will never forget. I've watched my boy start taking an interest in building stuff, and graduate into actually creating things that turned out beautiful. You are right, they are capable of doing great things, if we only spend the time to encourage and provide support. Which is why it irks me so much about the shop programs. Some of these kids aren't "book smart". They struggle memorizing boring passages from history books. They start feeling like they are stupid because they just aren't motivated to learn that way. But give them a block plane or a lathe, and help them to create things, and I've seen them take flight! It helps them to believe that they can do anything they put their minds to.

Sorry we all got off topic. I know in some forums they get a bit testy with that and end up moving or deleting threads.

I did find out some interesting things about plans. It seems that some of the businesses out there are basically copying the plans of the people that created them, then selling them cheaper without authorization. Not cool in my book. How much would it cost to go to the original authors and strike a deal to buy the plans wholesale so they can still sell plans, (albeit less margins), but hopefully sell cedar and kits? In the end I'm really glad I asked questions. I pick the honest way to make a buck over cheating someone any day. I guess it's just the world we live in now....

Kory