Picture of Morris or Veazie with pennants

[Howie]

Can someone provide me with pics of a Morris or Veazie, preferably one with a 'long deck', with its pendants flying... or at least with the dowels in place. The Veazie I'm restoring has mounting hardware for pennants fore and aft, but the decks were a bit screwed up when i got the canoe and I'm not sure if they were to be positioned straight up or perhaps leaning slightly to the aft.

Also, the fancy hardware at the deck fits a 1/2" pole quite nicely, but at the bottom atop the stem the fitting is 3/8" diameter. What's up with that? - why not 1/2" at the bottom as well?

 

[Howie]

... Also, could you measure how far the pole is located from the pointy end of the deck.

 

[Benson Gray]

The two known Veazie catalogs don't show any long decks, pennants, flag poles, or burgees. The 1919 Morris catalog show some on page four, the socket locations on page 23, the parts on page 30, and the prices on page 31 as shown below.

My Old Town Molitor was made to model a Morris as shown at the link below. The forward tip of the bow flag pole socket is about 11 inches from the bow tip (on the 36 inch long deck). The aft tip of the stern flag pole socket is about 8.5 inches from the stern tip (on the 24 inch long deck). Let me know if this doesn't answer your questions.

Benson

AA grade Old Town Molitor model in original condition from 1921

This is an AA grade Old Town Molitor model in original condition from 1921. It has closed gunwales and pocked ribs like a Morris.

forums.wcha.org

 

[Howie]

So... they're called flagstaff and flagstaff sockets. Good to know.

I've figured out on my own that the flags have to be vertical since the two sockets are angled identically. On mine, the tip of the deck to the center of the coaming is about 16", so it's different than yours. But the measurements you provide are of help because the poles are actually much closer to the deck tip than is suggested by the location of the pole socket on my stem. Thus my sockets should be mounted much closer to the deck tip. This is good because it'll cause the pole to be closer to vertical. Whew! I've had to make all new inner rails and decks and I was worried that the upward bend at the deck isnt steep enough.

Thanks as always Benson.

 

[Michael Grace]

Hello, Howie. I have a couple of Morris canoes with long decks and flagstaff sockets. The sockets are set so that the flagstaff is pretty much vertical. Measurements from tip and/or coaming might not be much help because the socket location will vary depending upon the upsweep the kingplanks on different canoes; this upsweep varied over time and model.

I'm not sure what you mean by "at the bottom atop the stem the fitting is 3/8" diameter." What's happening at the stem? If you're referring to the inner diameter of the socket tube, mine are all cylindrical except for being crimped at one location around the curcumference of the bottom - the crimp serves as a stop for a cylindrical flagstaff.

Here are a couple of photos - one historic and one of mine - that show a flagstaff in place. In the latter, it appears the flagstaff is angled toward the stern but I always think of it as vertical. The restored Morris has 100% of its original structure so the flagstaff holders, decks and deck substructure are the way they were built.

 

[Howie]

Thanks for the pics Michael.
The pic below shows one of the sockets that mounts on the deck - the angled tube located just to the left of the ID tag reading 320. And to the left of said ferrule is a 7/16" ID brass tube mounted to a block of wood. This I assume is used to capture the bottom flag pole. The problem is that this tube is located way forward from the tip of the deck - so far forward that the deck above it has very little slope to it. So I couldn't figure out how the ferrule, having the bend angle shown in my pic, could be mounted on an almost flat portion of the deck above this brass tube. I'm now convinced that the previous 'restorer' screwed up big time.

 

[Howie]

Michael, Benson: By the way, do your canoes have a similar brass tube mounted on the stem that captures the bottom end of the pole?

 

[Michael Grace]

No, and that's odd. I've never seen anything like it in a cedar-canvas canoe. I've got various Flagstaff sockets on cedar-canvas canoes and they always are single pieces in the deck only; nothing on the stem. Same also for a decked Rushton lapstrake - flagstaff sockets mounted in deck only. Many Canadian all-wood canoes have a mast step (a cup-shaped piece) screwed directly to the stem, and Willits canoes have a nice cast mast step often (but not always) mounted on the stem. Decked sailing canoes often have mast tubes that span from deck to hull. But I've can't recall anything like your canoe's setup in a cedar-canvas canoe. The wooden part of what you've got looks homemade, and not the quality expected of Morris.

The Canadian style "cup" from a Peterborough Solid Comfort and the Willits Bros. step from a standard later Willits:

It would be fun to see some photos of your Morris. Is that the full number - 320? Should be a nice one when you get finished with it.

 

[Howie]

Michael: I posted pics of the Veazie when I picked up the canoe from MGC/Mike. See here.

Veazie #320 with long deck and coping

Thought you folks might like to see pics of this Veazie that was just gifted to me by WCHA member MGC (who claims to have too many canoes and outside interests and not enough time to work on it himself). I can't thank you enough Mike. Mike has gathered some history on the canoe, and I...

forums.wcha.org

Mike had also posted about the canoe earlier:

Help Iding Old Wooden Canoe

I'm cleaning out the barn after my grandmother's passing and wondering about her old wood and canvas canoe. The story I was told is that it was originally purchased by my great-great-grandfather in 1915, I'm not sure if he bought it new or used. Was fiberglassed over in the 50s :eek:. I'm...

forums.wcha.org

Here's a pic of what it looks like now.

So really... Nobody has an idea what these two little 'cups' are for. There's one on both stems, and positioned differently on each. One is mounted on... Wait - it just struck me. These things are curtain rod holders! I've no idea what they are doing on the bottom of a Veazie. Maybe the raccoons in Mike's barn were setting up house! Well, this sure makes mounting the flagstaff sockets easier now that I don't have to align them to these things!

 

[MGC]

I don't know if this helps, but here is an image of the Veazie deck that took when I picked it up from the original owners. The "restoration" was done in 1959.

 

[Howie]

Thanks Mike. I can see where the flag socket is, but I bet if you were to put a pole it it would have been leaning to the left/aft. A similarly positioned socket on the front deck would be pointing forward. Can't have been the way they were originally.

FYI... Just slathered on he orange paint stripper. Getting closer to completion - the end is in sight. BTW, how nice it is to strip a canoe with the inner rails gone. Makes it just a little bit easier.

 

[Todd F]

Lantern holders?

 

[Howie]

Todd: These two curtain rod holders were hidden beneath long decks. So unless he/they wanted to illuminate the front & aft areas under the decks... O - and I've verified that they would have no interaction with the removable floor board.

 

[MGC]

Lantern holders?

Lantern holders.....

 

[Michael Grace]

Howie - I forgot to say and you probably know this but the flagstaff socket that is lying on top of the stem in your photo above is an original. Every one of these that I've seen, including yours, has the plate mounted at about the same angle: about 30 degrees or so off of perpendicular to the tube. Based upon the photo Mike shows in post #10 above, your canoe appears to have been built with a relatively low rise toward the bow and stern, meaning a deck with significantly less upsweep than the canoes in the two images I posted. If these flagstaff sockets were all made the same (at least yours are the same as others I've seen), then mounting them on a flatter kingplank would result in flagstaffs that lean toward the bow and the stern. There's no way around that geometry other than making flagstaffs with a tube/plate angle that is shallower than the one in your photo. Just restore, mount the sockets where they were, and enjoy.

 

[Howie]

Well, to get around the socket pointing other than vertical is to mount it closer to the end of the deck where, presumably, the deck's uprise angle is steeper. From what I see I can place them about 6" to 8" from the end of the deck and be close to vertical.

Thanks for all your information!