Hanger bolts

[pklonowski]

I'm FINALLY getting my first restoration started.. the 1918/19 Old Town HW. The cap rails and outwales came off intact, and the thwarts and bow seat are off. The question is, how do I remove the hanger bolts that held the thwarts & seats in place? There's very little "wiggle" in most of them, and I'm a bit hesitant to "persuade" them with the mallet...

I found it odd, that although these are steel (magnet test), the square nuts came off with little effort, and there was no need to hold the hanger bolts while threading the nuts off. Just not much rust on them... I'm okay with this... and very interested to see how the bolts are held in the inwales, such that they don't spin.

 

[Rob Stevens]

They are just "press fit" usually installed with tight tolerance so the drilled hole is as small as possible. The threads tend to bind with expansion of the wood with moisture change. So, yes, you need to bang them out with a mallet and/or block of wood.

 

[pklonowski]

Thank you!

I'm thinking I'll drill a similar-sized hole in a block of wood, and use it for a backer board, so the top of the inwale doesn't explode too badly.

 

[pklonowski]

Okay, those came out easily with the persuader and the backer board. The bolts have flanges pressed into them, near the head, see attached. Some are in better repair than others, and one of them has no flanges remaining, due to rust.

Does Old Town still sell these? Or Jamestown, or...?

 

[Valiant J]

These are "fin-necked" bolts. Suspected they might be there, so good thing you pushed them up before attempting to turn. These are not readily available... not sure if anyone makes this style anymore, but McClave, Philbrick & Giblin in Mystic, Connecticut may still offer a type of bronze fin-necked bolts, but maybe too large for canoes. Most of today's fin-necked bolts only have tiny fins at the junction of the shaft and a round head. Probably not so useful for seats/thwarts in canoes.

 

[pklonowski]

Hijacking my own thread... Started stripping paint off the HW. The red came off the decks, thwarts, & inwales reasonably well, but the beige underneath it is tougher (should I try a different stripper?).

But, as I scraped the beige off the bow deck, the remains of the Old Towne decal became evident. On the stern deck, the Von Langerke & Antoine sticker is coming to light; this was the original destination listed on the OT Build Record. Must have the right boat! See attached.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

It's cool to have original decals, even if they are remnants. The Von Langerke & Antoine is certainly one that you couldn't find in reproduction.

When it comes to strippers, I think many try the less-toxic and discover there are just some things that require methaline chloride. But watch out for the decals.

Kathy

 

[Bradford Wyman]

Funny you should post...

I've been unveiling (de-fiberglassing) my late father's B N Morris (SN# 11824, I think you have this one, Kathy) and I uncovered these hangers, unlike any I'd seen. I suppose they are standard for this boat? I cannot imagine that new ones can be found anywhere. Except for the stern seat hangers, all of them have been cut off flush with the bottom of the inwale and replaced with flat head screw bolts.

I'm now about to start stripping the very dark layers of varnish from the inside. When I'm done I'll post a whole lot of questions about "now what?!"

Brad

 

[Bradford Wyman]

Hmmm...

My photo did not appear. I used the "Manage My Attachments" feature and it told me that the pic was uploaded.

What now?

Brad

 

[pklonowski]

I'm guessing (only guessing) that the images were larger than 488Kb... though I thought it gave an error pop-up window when I did that...

I'm very interested to see what the bolts on your canoe look like!

There is a small machine shop in my area (I hope they don't crash with the economy...) that may be able to make odd bolts, but would need a mess of money for set-up charges. The more of them they make, the lower the charge per bolt... how many might we all want to have made???

I haven't looked very hard for alternate options, but none of the fin-necked bolts I've seen on line are even remotely like the ones off my Old Town.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Maybe uploading the picture was a glitch and will work if you try it again. I'll post a picture to see if it works for me... my picture will be of part of a seat and one of the many exciting bolts that came with this canoe... but I mostly want to show the interior, which is original to this 1911 Morris. We plan to clean it up and varnish and not strip and re-stain. The replacement-ribs will get some of Denis's Magical Morris Matching Stain formula (details posted elsewhere in Forums).

Kathy

 

[Bradford Wyman]

OK, here goes another attempt.

Actually, that first try was 321 Kb, so I should have been withing the limits.

Hah! There it is! Actually, it's only 49 Kb in this format. Geez, I wish I understood more about this tecchi stuff.

So what do you think about that hanger?

Brad

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Your hanger appears to be somebody's "fix"... I'll attach images of Morris hanger bolts. The top cap of the closed gunwale system covers the top of the bolt. Your bolt may be "right" but is tapped down into the top cap.

Glad you were able to send up a picture!

Kathy

 

[Bradford Wyman]

Hi Kathy-

You've answered my question. I'm sure my hangers are original. You may not be able to tell from the photo, but there is no top cap. Those hangers are pounded into the inwale. There's also no outwale. My father, or someone before him, removed both the outwale and he top cap and fiberglassed over both, including inside the inwale. Furthermore, the decks were removed, the crowns shaved off with a chisel the tips cut off and dropped below the rails. A false deck was screwed to the inwales and bolted through the original decks. I'll have to splice new ends (both) onto the inwales.

I'm thinking, from your earlier posts, that I shouldn't attempt to remove the dark color from the inside of the canoe? Unfortunately (I think) much of the planking on the "rebuild" is very blonde. Probably a difference between western red and northern white. There is also a full complement of blonde half ribs; I'm sure an "improvement" for expedition canoe trips.

I'm still uncovering the project. I'll be posting more when I get a full assessment of what I'm up against.

Thank you for your help.

Brad

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi again Brad--

We have another Morris that Denis stripped completely on the inside because it needed a lot of work and the interior wasn't as pristine as this other Morris we have. It takes a lot of ZipStrip, and if you can pawn the job off on someone who chooses to do this sort of thing for a living, that may be the best way to go. Denis worked out a stain-formula to re-create the Morris interior that seems authentic enough and everything comes up the same color in the end.

A few Morris canoes have light interiors from the factory--- my feeling is that this was the buyer's choice, and my feeling when it comes to canoe restoration is that "we" get to have a choice now, regarding colors and stains and the like. So, if you want a light interior, that's not a no-no... and if you want to strip and stain, or simply try to match the lighter wood to the darker wood, that's okay too.

We decided this new old Morris we found has a nice enough interior that it doesn't need stripping... just a judgment-call.

Were your half-ribs added later, or do you think they are original to the canoe?

Kathy

 

[Bradford Wyman]

Those are "after market" half-ribs, probably installed by my father as he was preparing it for his expedition.

The problem with the color of ribs and planking is the "two tone" effect, with almost one half of the darker planking having been replaced by light. I'll go for either one, but not both! Maybe when I get it stripped I'll ask for Denis' formula.

Thank you for your consistent helpfulness.