Chestnut decal questions

[Murat V]

SamB's recent acquisition of a prefire Teddy got me curious about the timeline of Chestnut Decals. Dick P had already put together an approximate timeline of decal variations (referenced again below):

Specifically wanted to ask the forums about the logo cited as ca. 1940.

All the other post-fire decals feature the "CHESTNUT CANOE CO LTD" text in an outlined font (pale yellow in the ca. 1921 or white in the ca. 1970 & reproduction decals). The circa 1940 decal has an all-black script. I've only come across this style of decal on Chestnut paddles (either full-sized or models) and the decal is obviously quite a bit smaller in size. Never seen a full-sized decal with all black text on the deck of a canoe.

Wondering if anyone can confirm that this ca. 1940 decal version with the all black script was ever put on a deck.

 

[Nick Dennis]

This is my 1940s sample paddle with the black lined decal. My 1950 Chestnut had the white outline on the deck decal. An interesting thread

 

[samb]

If anyone reading has a good photo of the 1908 decal that I could use to reproduce full size, I'd be very grateful.

Sam

 

[Murat V]

Sam, check out image 4 in the first post by Roger Young at this thread:
http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/chestnut-canoe-co-decal-variations.11484/

The pic is one of the best surviving pre-fire style decals I've seen. Believe it is on a Cruiser owned by member Graham here on the forums. Perhaps you could reach out for a better resolution image from him.

 

[Murat V]

This is my 1940s sample paddle with the black lined decal. My 1950 Chestnut had the white outline on the deck decal. An interesting thread

View attachment 52760

Nick, do you happen to have a closeup photo of the decal on your 50's Chestnut? Been noticing subtle differences between decals on when viewing at higher resolution. Hoping to fill in the gaps of Dick P's original timeline with extra info / variations of decals.

 

[MGC]

Interesting thread...lead me to go look at my Cnut paddles and then my 1960's Playmate/Fox. I'm thinking the pair of paddles shown here may be mine. They were original with the early 60's canoe. I was hoping to be able to get a picture of the deck decal in that it's in original condition but access to it is hidden by a Morris I have hanging below it and then a Rushton below the Morris and then a plug under the Indian. I will see if I can get close to it tomorrow using a stepladder and a healthy measure of stupidity. I'll post a picture if I can get one and survive a likely fall.

Success but not a great picture. I had to use the selfie camera on my cell phone while standing on the top of my step ladder and hanging over my Morris. This is a 1965 ish and original.

 

[Benson Gray]

Here are a few Chestnut decal images that I have collected. All of these are undated, unfortunately. I did not take any of these pictures.

Benson

 

[Murat V]

Thanks Benson. Your 4th image shows one of those smaller, all-black text logos on a deck. It looks to have a square shaped backing adhesive like seen on later dated (i.e. circa 1970s) paddles.

 

[Nick Dennis]

Nick, do you happen to have a closeup photo of the decal on your 50's Chestnut? Been noticing subtle differences between decals on when viewing at higher resolution. Hoping to fill in the gaps of Dick P's original timeline with extra info / variations of decals.

Murat, this is the original decal on the 1950 Playmate which I had.
Nick

 

[samb]

Sam, check out image 4 in the first post by Roger Young at this thread:
http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/chestnut-canoe-co-decal-variations.11484/

The pic is one of the best surviving pre-fire style decals I've seen. Believe it is on a Cruiser owned by member Graham here on the forums. Perhaps you could reach out for a better resolution image from him.

Thanks Murat, I shall try that.
Sam

 

[Murat V]

Murat, this is the original decal on the 1950 Playmate which I had.
Nick
View attachment 52769

Thanks for the closeup pic, Nick.

Two questions for you:
1. Was the deck stained in a darker tone at some point? There appears to be quite a colour difference under the transparent border surrounding the decal.

2. Question about the 1950 attribution. Went back and checked the catalogues. The Playmate first appears in the 1956 catalogue but is not found in the 1953 (or prior) editions. Dan M's site mentions the Playmate as introduced circa 1954-1956. Could the boat be a mid-to late 50s at all?

 

[Nick Dennis]

Thanks for the closeup pic, Nick.

Two questions for you:
1. Was the deck stained in a darker tone at some point? There appears to be quite a colour difference under the transparent border surrounding the decal.

2. Question about the 1950 attribution. Went back and checked the catalogues. The Playmate first appears in the 1956 catalogue but is not found in the 1953 (or prior) editions. Dan M's site mentions the Playmate as introduced circa 1954-1956. Could the boat be a mid-to late 50s at all?

Hi Murat,

1. No idea!! Thats how it came to me. I simply lightly sanded and varnished over to preserve the decal. I would suggest that the wood outside the decal has acquired some patina.
2. When I got the canoe it apparently came to the UK in 1960 with it's then Canadian owner who had owned it for 10 years or so which is where the 1950 guesstimate came from.

I had long discussions when I was in Buckhorn with Dick We think that this canoe was a special customer order. The mahogany heart decks were not of the 50's but original. When I was rubbing the paint back on the canvas I found the original pattern which was that of a different model either an Ajax or Moonlight which was a 16' canoe. Dick thinks it was not uncommon for someone to walk in and say I want that but smaller and with those features It was certainly an A Grade canoe.

Chestnuts like Cedar Ribs can also be a bit of an enigma.

Hope this helps.

See you in July at the Assembly?

Nick

 

[Nick Dennis]

Here's a photo of the Chestnut when I had it along with one Sam found in the UK The serial numbers were within 30 of each other

 

[Murat V]

Interesting thread...lead me to go look at my Cnut paddles and then my 1960's Playmate/Fox. I'm thinking the pair of paddles shown here may be mine. They were original with the early 60's canoe. I was hoping to be able to get a picture of the deck decal in that it's in original condition but access to it is hidden by a Morris I have hanging below it and then a Rushton below the Morris and then a plug under the Indian. I will see if I can get close to it tomorrow using a stepladder and a healthy measure of stupidity. I'll post a picture if I can get one and survive a likely fall.View attachment 52773
Success but not a great picture. I had to use the selfie camera on my cell phone while standing on the top of my step ladder and hanging over my Morris. This is a 1965 ish and original.

Thanks for all the effort in taking the photo. The fact that you can narrow you boat's date to circa 1965 is very helpful.

 

[patrick corry]

Here's my (presumably) 1950's Chestnut Chum decal.

And the ghost of a decal from a Chestnut Bobs/Ranger (not sure which):

 

[Murat V]

Thanks for these Patrick. That faded decal shape is unmistakable. Apparently in later years, Chestnut switched from die cut decals to ones with a transparent border around the design. This is quite visible in NickD's playmate deck.

 

[Murat V]

I had long discussions when I was in Buckhorn with Dick We think that this canoe was a special customer order. The mahogany heart decks were not of the 50's but original.

Nick, hope you don't mind a followup question to your statement above. Bit confused about your statement that the mahogany heart decks were "not of the 50's" to when you date the boat, but still "original".

Do you mean that these decks were "original" to the boat when you obtained it and have not undergone restoration work by yourself?

Asking because the decal has a features consistent with later era decals, particularly the visible perimeter border around the general shape of the design. There are also subtle text changes seen in the post-50s era and the decal overall looks to be in very pristine shape with minimal UV fading and age-related wear considering the age of the boat.

Appreciate your clarification as this will help tremendously with the decal timeline research I'm working on.

 

[Nick Dennis]

Hi Murat. What I am saying is that the type and style of deck is not what would have normally been fitted at that time but was an original fitment hence a special order. Rather like upgrading the accessories or specification of a car at time of purchase. When I re-canvassed it was evident by the fixings that those decks were there from day one. When I first got the canoe the decal had some minor chipping and fading but with some careful work I improved the look and protected it under some good Epifanes varnish.

As you know, dating Chestnuts is never easy but first hand providence helps a lot.

Nick

 

[Murat V]

Thank you for the clarification