Cartopping - Too fast for Canvas Canoe?

C

ChristopherB

New Member
Good morning - hope this message finds everyone well! A question was recently asked to me and I really didn't have a good answer. Simply put, will any speed (especially excessive) affect the integrity of a wood/canvas canoe? The real concern being increased speeds and associated external and internal pressure. My friend asked because he feels the canvas could move/flutter and fatigue ... therefore he limits highway speeds accordingly. I have attached a photo of my 1917 Old Town HW (on top of my son's future truck) and have hauled it successfully for thousands of miles at highway speeds around 65-70 MPH. I can just see the bow through the windshield and only see slight movement/vibration. The canoe is set on foam blocks and lightly strapped to my wooden frame. Any thoughts? If our canoes traveled 50, 60, 100 years ago, they certainly did move slower and were not subject to the speeds we travel today, let alone the frequency of transport. Also - many probably didn't leave their home, as was the case with my boat. I have some pretty solid empirical data and would very much like to hear from others. Thank you!
C4F02AEA-DB8D-4721-BA9B-9263E7CDD9DC.jpeg
 
I have transported during sales deliveries, pick up of purchases and for my own recreational use dozens of wood canvas canoes, most over some section of high-speed highway. Other than those canoes that were in rough shape and compromised before the trip, I have never witnessed any ill effects as long as the canoe was properly supported and adequetly strapped. This biggest risk is being unaware of loose hardware or name tags that get vibrated off during transit. Canoes in a weakened condition do require additional care and thought before moving down the highway at top speed. I have on a few occasions had to wrap the canoe tightly in a tarp and securely duct tape it over the canoe before securing it on my track rack. Something in this condition requires traveling a bit slower or using back roads, or at least frequent stop to check that everything is intact.
 
Welcome and wow, this is an interesting variation of the usual 'wooden canoes are too fragile to use' myth. The WCHA holds an Assembly annually and hundreds of wood and canvas canoes are transported long distances at highway speeds to get there. I've never heard of any well maintained canoes suffering from this experience, and a few of these drivers exceed the posted speed limits by a fair margin. However, old unrestored canoes with the canvas falling off will occasionally arrive with less canvas than when they started. I've never been concerned about travelling at highway speeds with a wood and canvas canoe, nor have I ever observed any problems from doing so.

Benson
 
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I've been picking up and delivering for years on my truck and no problem. Though when picking up and it's in bad shape, I have left some canvas scraps on a few highways. Sometimes I've had to duct tape the old peeling canvas to keep from losing it all on the road. I do use a trailer for the big square sterns, just too heavy for the truck rack. It also amazes me how close a car will tailgate you when you have a canoe on top.
 
Years ago, I picked up a Penn Yan flier model cartopper in the Grayling area. It had no rails and had been left out over the winter in Northern Michigan. Fortunately??, I was hauling it back late at night. Somewhere along the way I heard a different noise. Needless to say, the boat didn't do well. I actually bought it for the hardware so it was no major disappointment.
 
Thank you very much for the responses - as Benson mentioned earlier, these canoes are all too often considered fragile pieces of art. I certainly didn't want to insult the individual asking the questions; however, I'm glad you have confirmed my initial thoughts.
 
I have never seen a canoe on foam blocks that was "solid" ie: not moving.

My current rack system is Thule bars with 4 gunwale brackets (the brackets have a thin rubber liner).
1" cam lock straps are tight (as tight as I can pull) and hold the canoe HARD to the bars/brackets.
The brackets prevent ANY sideways motion.
Finally a rope is at each end tied to the truck. (I have seen pics of roof brackets failing)

Like Gil (and likely many others here) I've hauled home some real wrecks, once from NY to MN,
duct tape works well to keep loose parts from departing.

The canoe is set on foam blocks and lightly strapped to my wooden frame. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
I have lots of stories of people coming to pick their canoe up at my shop and watching them tie it on their car. I'll help sometimes. I've had people bring those big yellow ratchet straps you would use on a tractor trailer bed. Crazy. I had someone last week who showed up with NO straps. Some people show up with ratchet straps still in the package from home depot and they can't figure out how to use them. If I deliver, I put a strip of soft cloth or blanket under my straps , just because it's nice new paint. I tell them I'm not responsible once they leave my driveway. :)
 
I have had people crank their newly restored canoes down so tight they have cracked frames. The trick is to tighten it just enough. It does not require much force. Where you want to spend some effort is on the rack cross bar members. Duct tape a split pool noodle, pipe foam insulation or ideally a piece of discarded fire truck hose ( case of good beer to the fire station that thinks of me when they replace fire hose. Rubber lined, canvas covered- perfect.). This will keep the canoe from sliding around by increasing friction and not by increasing strap force.
 
Dan has the right idea. Gunwale brackets from either Yakima or Thule do a great job of keeping the canoe rails in position. You should never load directly onto the crossbars if you have an alternative. Like David, I like to put something under the straps to protect the paint.
On my Trac Racks I have to add extra protection for the rails. The crossbars and brackets are best suited for two by eights, not nice canoes.
Unless there are strong cross winds, I tend to exceed speed limits by a healthy margin.
This thread will be in the back of my mind next week. I'm taking a 17 1/2 foot WC canoe to Idaho.
 
I don't have the dates and name on hand but I believe at one time in the early 1900's there was record breaking speed boat that had a canvas cover hull. It just indicates that a proper canvas job that is in good condition shouldn't have any problem with normal cartop traveling conditions or highway speeds.
 
This reminded me of the story at the link below of a Stanley Steamer with a Robertson canoe as the body that hit 197 miles an hour before it crashed.

Benson


bredlo

Thread 'Robertson canoe / Stanley Steamer collaboration'

In searching for more photos and info on J.R. Robertson canoes, I've found several links to an interesting collaboration between the Auburndale/Newton, MA canoe company and another Newton company; the Stanley Motor Carriage Co.

Identical twins F.E. and F.O. Stanley wanted to set the land speed record... and did so in Ormond Beach, Florida in 1906. Fred Marriott drove their custom steam-powered car dubbed "the Rocket," or the "Flying Teapot" which looked nothing like anybody had ever seen in those early years of the automobile.

The 16 foot long, 3 foot wide ribbed body was designed...
 
That is quite a bit faster than "highway speed"!
Benson Gray said:
This reminded me of the story at the link below of a Stanley Steamer with a Robertson canoe as the body that hit 197 miles an hour before it crashed.

Benson


bredlo

Thread 'Robertson canoe / Stanley Steamer collaboration'

In searching for more photos and info on J.R. Robertson canoes, I've found several links to an interesting collaboration between the Auburndale/Newton, MA canoe company and another Newton company; the Stanley Motor Carriage Co.

Identical twins F.E. and F.O. Stanley wanted to set the land speed record... and did so in Ormond Beach, Florida in 1906. Fred Marriott drove their custom steam-powered car dubbed "the Rocket," or the "Flying Teapot" which looked nothing like anybody had ever seen in those early years of the automobile.

The 16 foot long, 3 foot wide ribbed body was designed...
Click to expand...
 
I have had two misadventures with canoes on the roof, but canvas was not involved in either one!

The first was a fiberglass canoe that had been stored upside down on the ground til the gunwales rotted off. It was a nice Stowe 13 footer so I saved it. With it on the roof rack, I had to drive slowly and stay off the highway. Even with the fiberglass shell strapped together, the flexing resulted in a lot of gel coat cracks that needed to be filled.

The second was a Wenonah Kevlar canoe on my wife's car. We were still using bow and stern lines that went to hooks under the car. Of course, modern cars are all plastic down there and the hooks don't hold, which is why everyone now has straps or blocks under the hood for this purpose. So the hook came loose, the rope went under the tire, and it pulled tight with a bang. The aluminum gunwale was bent but no other harm was done. I was able to fix the gunwales with a strongback, blocks, and clamps. I see lots of other canoes on Craigslist with bent aluminum gunwales so obviously a lot of people have not figured out how to straighten them!
 
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