Another Old Town request

[spoefish]

I have an Old Town 16 ft. that I have had sitting around in a friends tractor shed for years and it looks like it is time to haul it home and get to work on it. The serial number is 132741, and it was represented as a 1940 model HW low bow. I think it may have been sent to a Boy Scout group, damaged in transit, sent back to OT, and at that time it was repaired and the thwarts were replaced by seats. Any information would be a big help and thanks in advance.

Stephen

 

[MikeCav]

Yep, you have the basic story. 132741 is a 16' low end HW in CS grade with ash decks & thwarts - no seats. It was painted "aluminum" and shipped to a scout camp in Pennslyvania in December 1941. It was returned damaged (though no fault of OT) in January of '42, it was recanvassed and refinished, seats were installed in April of '42. It was also painted dark green and resold to a person in New Rochelle, NY in April. The build record and supporting pages are attached.

Scans of approximately 210,000 records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. Additional information about the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. Please join WCHA or make a tax deductable contribution so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA, http://www.wcha.org/wcha_video.php to watch a 10 minute video about WCHA and our programs and http://www.wcha.org/join.html to join. If you are already a WCHA member, THANK YOU!

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

 

[spoefish]

Hi Mike,
And thanks for the information. I notice on page 2 of the build record that when the canoe was returned in 1942 for repair, not only did it get new canvas, seats, and a keel, but it also got a new number - 133682. I wonder if there is a build record for this number? And how common was it for a canoe to have a second number issued? In any case other than needing one rib (not really cracked, more like kinked a bit when it was built), canvas, and refinishing there is no rot or damage. I think in the end this is going to be a nice one, and the low ends are a neat feature.

Stephen

 

[Roger Young]

Mike or some of the others who research OT build records might have another interpretation, but it looks to me that the 'new canoe # 133682' was shipped as a replacement to the buyer who returned the damaged canoe, and that the damaged canoe, 132741, was repaired and then re-sold to another person. I don't believe the first canoe was 're-numbered', but rather 'replaced' by OT; the original then went to a new home after being refurbished. At least, I think that's the proper interpretation to place on the notation on the build record.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Roger is Right!

Attached is the scan of the replacement... a canoe much like the first one, which was sent to the scouts.

My question is whether Old Town sold the refurbished canoe at reduced cost, or if it became New all over again.

Kathy

 

[Roger Young]

Hi Kathy;

Thanks for the affirmation.

In the course of my presently on-going review of OT build records, I have come across several instances of similar notations on the cards: i.e., of canoes being returned for repairs after being damaged, sometimes by the owner, occasionally during shipping. I have seen cards where canoes were repaired and returned, always at seeming modest cost. Also instances where the original buyer was shipped a replacement, and the damaged canoe was repaired and made like new. Yet, many cards bear the instruction: "sell as used" or something to that effect, pretty much denoting that OT was always very circumspect and fair in its dealings and customer relations.

I have noted this enough times to feel suitably impressed. I think the answer to your question is that the damaged canoe did become 'new' again, but very likely that OT re-sold it at a discount none the less. Good customer relations. Likely one of the main reasons for its long-standing success.

I have no personal interest or gain in saying this; it's simply an overall impression gained from skimming through 100,000 historical documents.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Thanks, Roger. I've found it very interesting looking up records because they shed light on things such as this: the way business was done. Seems to me that "in the old days" (of Old Town and other businesses) they genuinely wanted to serve the customer. In the case of this particular canoe, the damage wasn't the fault of Old Town, yet they replaced the canoe and may have lost money on restoration and re-sale of the original.

 

[spoefish]

Not only a happy ending for the scouts, but for me and the canoe as well. It is in fact a very nice canoe and I have had a chance to paddle it a bit before it was stored (barely leaked, but truly needs a new canvas, varnish, and paint). I think it will make a very nice restoration and with luck and enterprise I will have it ready in time for the 2010 Assembly. Also, nice to have a canoe that is nearly my age - I am a 1940 vintage, the HW is Aug. 1941, but we are at least both born prior to U.S. entry into WW II, and thus both qualify as pre-war models. Thanks to everyone for their input on this.

Stephen

 

[Roger Young]

Kathy:

The one thing we haven't mentioned here is that those build cards often do show notations about 'claims' being made, especially in relation to the costs of the repairs. I suspect those references are in respect of insurance claims that had to do with the shipping, or claims against the various railroad carriers which were used. I'm not sure that OT totally suffered in the outcome. They did seem to take care of the customer's needs first, then sort out who was going to bear the restoration costs later - OT or the carrier. So, if OT sold the repaired canoe at a discount to a second buyer, it may have recouped part of the loss by way of reimbursement from insurer or carrier.

I think you are right in that they did a lot to keep the 'little' customer happy in the first instance, and then sorted out between the 'bigger' companies who was going to 'pony up' for the damage. I have noticed one or two cards where OT simply decided not to file a claim, bore the loss itself, repaired the canoe, resold at a discount, and simply went on with business.

(If you'll pardon a little personal story .....)
Kind of reminds me of my grandfather, and the way he was reputed to have done business back in the 'dirty '30's'. He was a small businessman in a small town. Had a lot of clients who couldn't pay their accounts. So, he often took IOU's, etc. Halfway through the depression, my Dad joined him in the family business when he couldn't afford to stay at university. One New Year's Day, they were both at the office trying to catch up, working to figure out their finances. Grandfather turned to my Dad, told him to follow him down to the basement. Grandfather was carrying a shoebox filled with promissory notes, unpaid accounts, IOU's, etc. Told my Dad to open the furnace door. My Dad about near fainted when Grandfather threw the box into the fire. My Dad said: "how are we going to know who owes us?" Grandfather just shrugged and said: "we'll never know; what's more, we're never going to ask. Those folks have no money anyway, and if they did, they need it more than we do. We are surviving; most of them are barely holding on."

My grandfather didn't die a wealthy man, but he had thousands of friends and was one of the most respected business people in the area. He believed in service to his clients. That was business way back then. We could probably use a little more of it today.

 

[MikeCav]

Roger, The story of your Grandfather is one that bears repeating, especially in these days. I wonder how many of the mortgage brokerages, banks with preditory lending etc. that are lining up for bailouts would be that ethical and forgiving? Be proud of your family and the man who truly put "GRAND" in grandfather!

CRASH ----> Me - falling off soapbox!

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Love the story of your grandfather and his wisdom, Roger. Thanks.

One reason I like the people in WCHA is the willingness I see to reach out and help, with no thought of what you'd get in return other than a good feeling that might come from having helped out.