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PeterBorough Model 604 Serial Numbers

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Awaysis, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hello...all new here, excellent topics and reading so far. Grew up in Algonac, Michigan-Home of Chris-Craft and have paddled my Klepper Quattro many times on Lake Superior, Georgian Bay, Maine/Isle Au Haut. I own the Trademark and patterns, boats of The Kalamazoo Folding Boat Company/Duffel Boat, the oldest folding boat company in the world, but now have the opportunity to purchase an original Peterborough Canoe Model 604 from a local fur and trapping supply dealer, who acquired it from an old trappers estate sale...any information would be great and very welcome. Thank You, Tim
     
  2. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    A quick search of catalogues shows the 1914 Peterborough 604 as a 16' Canvas covered canoe with a 31" beam , 12" depth and a weight of 65 lbs. The 1921 catalogue shows the same except it now has a 33"beam. The 1927 catalogue shows it became the Ontonabe.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Day, Thank You for this information. I should be seeing the boat tonight and can take some measurements. The owner says it is 15 ft. in length. Is there a good resource for the Peterborough info.? Such as Serial Numbers and Grades, current pricing would be very interesting. Is original except for seats redone in Red Cedar. Thank You again, Tim
     
  4. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

  5. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    There are 23 Peterborough catalogs from 1909 to 1969 available at http://www.wcha.org/store/canadian-wood-canoe-and-boat-company-catalog-collection in the store. Greg's first link is good for the pricing of used canoes and his second link for the pricing of new canoes has moved to http://wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/guide/ now. Some additional Peterborough information is available at http://www.wcha.org/content/peterborough-canoe-company here. There are no known Peterborough serial number records available like there are for some other builders. Please post some pictures and dimensions here once you see it.

    Do you have any King folding boat catalogs to share? I have a copy of their catalog number 17 and would like to add more to the collection at http://www.wcha.org/store/historic-wood-canoe-and-boat-company-catalog-collection if possible.

    Benson
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  6. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Here's a few pictures of a Peterborough 604 I restored which might help.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Very beautiful boat indeed. I notice there is no center board or longeron. The boat I've purchased has a wide, mostly full length, center board. Also has a cracked side rail, but not a major deal for me at this point. Thank You for sharing pictures
     
  8. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to wooden canoe phobia. Mine had a "shoe keel". See picture. Is that what you mean?
     

    Attached Files:

  9. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Evening, the boat wasnt in a great location for photos, but, no, it is inside. More or less full length, @ 4 or 5 inches wide, tapering off toward bow and stern. Basically a center plank...ahhh the mysteries. Great talking, Thank You
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hello Benson, please forgive me, just noticed your note on King folding boats. No, sorry, I do not have any catalogs. I do have some old company letterhead, old news paper articles, parchment and one 8×10 photo, in particular, has Ole Evinrude in it with his new, small motor attached on the transom
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Day Dave, I keep examining your photos for clues and for knowledge. Do you know what year your boat is? Seems the S/N doesnt match/follow the small bit of info. on S/Ns in the links, being a four digit serial. The one I have is 4 digit also, higher number than yours. The fairly wide center board is interesting too, curious if it is/was an option for durability. Im sure this has been hashed and rehashed here, Thank You for your info. and support. Peace to you, Tim
     
  12. davelanthier

    davelanthier Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Hi Tim, unfortunately there seems to be very little information available on Peterborough canoes. There is no information , that I am aware of , about their serial number format sequence. Most of the information on their older canoes seems to have be gleaned from a few catalogues which are often miss leading or incorrect. How do you know you have a 604 model? Can you post some pictures? I have never seen or heard of any floor boards in a wood/canvas Peterborough canoe. The ones I have seen were used only in their longitudinal strip all wood canoes These were made of 2 lengthwise basswood boards held in place with 1/2" wide brass Z clips. How wide is the board in your canoe? Would it be considered a floor board for kneeling or a keel son for added strength? Assuming you have a 604 this board is possibly not original, being added later for some reason.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Evening, yes, I agree it may be an added item. It seems to be stout, wide and @ 1/2 to 5/8 inch thick, and @ 4-5 inches wide, tapering to the bow and stern. Should have photos soon. The tag is a 604. I was thinking over time, with bits of info. , the S/N sequencing would be somewhat determined or extrapolated over time. Appears to be a working or well used canoe, given the bottom staining/"patina". I probably paid a high price, but, its only a few miles from home and what Id like to add to my living room in our cottage home. We had a mink on our shore 2 days ago and 3 Bald Eagles on the ice yesterday, have Osprey visit often. The canoe will fit right in. Great to talk, and photos soon, Thank You
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Evening, photos of the Peterborough Model 604 in Michigan. There was a question of the wide keel board. Not sure of precise dimensions yet. Thanks All, Tim
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Fitz

    Fitz Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    The wide board is called a, "Keelson". It usually is used to stiffen the bottom of the canoe. Usually seen in much larger canoes like freighters. I am not sure if it is original to your canoe or not. You mention that it was a trapper's canoe. A trapper may have wanted the keelson to help with heavy loads in the canoe. Dragging a loaded canoe over a beaver dam comes to mind.

    Cheers,

    Fitz
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Evening All, well, the Peterborough is in the living room, on the floor for now. Many questions...this boat is maybe 15 ft. long, fully 36 in. wide, 12 in. deep. The keelson appears original and is 5 inches wide and runs, basically, the entire length of the boat. Would love to hear any thoughts, Thank You
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    A bit deeper into the whirlpool of canoes...in researching until midnight, the heart shape decks are Chestnut related? Brass ring, with a Peterborough tag??etc....the ribs are 2 3/8 wide, 3/8 thick, and spaced 1/2 in. apart. Canted ribs are same width as the others. Inwale is tapered. Yoke/thwart is half round/flat on one side and appears to be more or less square ended/not tapered, at the gunwales. All general hardware appers brass with square nuts, wooden spacers- very curious as to these wooden spacers and their design and intentions, they appear, to me to be unusual or specialized. She is 15 ft., 37 in. beam, and give or take, 13 inches deep.
    In reading, the BOBS Special has some of these characteristics, as does a Trapper type. Appears to be/measurements are exact, "pre-fire" if it is a Chestnut. One reference mentioned extra ribs can be ordered in some boats. The keelson is very heavy duty- fully 3/4 in. thick, 5 in. wide at its widest, tapering to the bow and stern. The boat has been entirely resin coated. Thanks Again, Tim
     

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  18. dmd421

    dmd421 Debbie Darga

    Hello Tim, welcome to the WCHA. If by chance you are planning to go to the Quiet Water Symposium in Lansing March 3rd, the Michigan Chapter of the WCHA will have a booth in the arena. Stop by and we can give you information about our wonderful chapter. https://www.quietwatersociety.org/ Hope you can make it!
     
  19. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    The Peterborough Model 64 is their 16' pleasure canoe. If yours does not match the 604 dimensions (16x33x12, give or take), then it is possible the wrong tag was installed, or it was added later from a different canoe. Peterborough canoes had heart-shaped decks pretty much throughout their existence so don't confuse that with the history of Chestnut heart-shaped decks.

    Your canoe was obviously built for hard use, as it is close-ribbed. The keelson may or may not be original - it looks of the correct vintage in the photos. I do not find mention of a keelson option in Peterborough catalogs.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Awaysis

    Awaysis Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Good Evening and Thank You for the insight. The keelson varnish and color, overall "patina" match the surrounding wood exactly, and affect the use marks and staining as well, being cleaner and less used close to the keelson edges. She is basically 15 ft. and @ 37 in. beam, very beautiful curves right up to each seat. Tumblehome is pronounced. Will attach a few more photos when she is fully cleaned up. Has some curious @ 1/4 in. round divets or marks all around inside. My thoughts are some sort of tool perhaps...breaking ice or poling? They are about the size of an average nail head. Need to finish cleaning her, maybe they are clamp/jig marks, not sure if they are in a pattern yet, but appear random and concentrated at the seat areas. Curious...of course, as to age...but, matches those early Chestnut rib size/spacing, inwales and their taper, cant ribs, exactly. And again, beautiful obvious curves. So, it looks like some research on 15 footers is in my future. Thank You Again, Tim
     

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