installing canoe seats

[paul buettner]

I am seriously considering using short inside rails for installing the seats in my next canoe. The rails would serve as a platform on either side on which the seat frame would rest and be secured to the rails by short bronze 3/16" carriage bolts. This would replace the more traditional approach of hanging the seats from the gunwales using longer bolts through dowels or spacers. The rails themselves would need to be attached to the insides of the ribs @ the locations of the seats. My thinking at this point is leaning toward fashioning 7/8" sq. rails out of some spruce I have, then securing them against the ribs with bolts thru from the outside of the hull before applying the cloth skin to the hull. In order to keep the bolt heads mostly flush w/ the planking, I am thinking I should use flathead bolts. Carriage bolts, however, might provide a more secure head against the soft planking and might not present a real problem under the cloth. I'd rather not bolt thru a finished hull, but maybe if someone has done this successfully using a good bedding, I might be willing to try that. Another option I am considering would be to use flathead screws from the outside of the hull, then also applying waterproof glue between the rails & the rib surfaces where they meet each other. Using the bolts seems a bit more elegant, & would also allow for more easily replacing the rails if necessary down the line. Has anyone used this or a similar method of installing seats? -- I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

[Rob Stevens]

Yes, multiple times. I use screws, through 5 ribs into the hardwood "rail". No glue needed.
The seats can also be screwed to the rail rather than bolted.

 

[bluedcanoed]

Flat head screws before canvas is very common for the rear seat of freight/squarestern canoes.

Bob

 

[paul buettner]

Yes, multiple times. I use screws, through 5 ribs into the hardwood "rail". No glue needed.
The seats can also be screwed to the rail rather than bolted.

Tks for your reply. I like the idea of screwing the rail thru 5 ribs. Should provide plenty of holding power for attaching the seats.

 

[paul buettner]

Flat head screws before canvas is very common for the rear seat of freight/squarestern canoes.

Bob

Tks for the info. I like the "design freedom" to be had from attaching the seats directly to the hull. A lot of canoeists around here just want to sit in the boat, & I want to be able to locate the seat low enuf to provide good stability while still preserving the desired comfort & ease of sitting.

 

[Rob Stevens]

And I never could figure out why anyone would drill a bolt hole through an important structural component ie. the inwale.

 

[paul buettner]

Good point. Well, I'm gonna try it this way this time. I've decided to use black ash for the rails instead of spruce. The hardwood will hold the screws better,& the weight difference for that small piece is negligible. Tks again for your thoughts.

 

[Glen Toogood]

Flat head screws before canvas is very common for the rear seat of freight/squarestern canoes.

Bob

Tremblay canoes all had their seats hung from cleats screwed to the ribs from inside the canvas side.

 

[jwil]

what did tremblay use for ribs and planking?

 

[jdm6593]

Tremblay canoes all had their seats hung from cleats screwed to the ribs from inside the canvas side.

I see this is quite an old thread, but for what it is worth, the Rushton Indian Girl also supports the forward seats on the ribs only. 5/32" planking, 5/16" ribs, the seat rests on cedar rails tacked to the ribs. The rails are as long as the seat (fore and aft) and about 3/4" thick by 2" high (I'm guessing). Our 1905-ish boat still has the original seat rails, but they are very deteriorated. I see no sign of strain at the ribs, but the seat/rail junction apparently held enough moisture to eventually rot the rails.

 

[Glen Toogood]

Tremblay ribs are 3/8" thick x 2 1/4" wide, eastern white cedar, no taper. Planking - standard 5/32" x 3 3/4 cedar.

 

[jhepp]

my rushton inc 17' indian girl (year unknown, sn 5182) is ready to start putting the seat materials together. the front seat appears to have original cleats on the ribs, but the rear was hung when I started working on it. I dont see any evidence that the rear was ever on cleats on the ribs. can anyone confirm or deny what is likely the "correct" way. Also looking for a good place to get nice hardware to hang and cane for the seats.

I see this is quite an old thread, but for what it is worth, the Rushton Indian Girl also supports the forward seats on the ribs only. 5/32" planking, 5/16" ribs, the seat rests on cedar rails tacked to the ribs. The rails are as long as the seat (fore and aft) and about 3/4" thick by 2" high (I'm guessing). Our 1905-ish boat still has the original seat rails, but they are very deteriorated. I see no sign of strain at the ribs, but the seat/rail junction apparently held enough moisture to eventually rot the rails.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Mine #3250 had cleats front, hangers rear. I think that's how he did it.

 

[Dan Miller]

my rushton inc 17' indian girl (year unknown, sn 5182) is ready to start putting the seat materials together. the front seat appears to have original cleats on the ribs, but the rear was hung when I started working on it. I dont see any evidence that the rear was ever on cleats on the ribs. can anyone confirm or deny what is likely the "correct" way. Also looking for a good place to get nice hardware to hang and cane for the seats.

The rear seat of an Indian Girl would be bolted tight to the underside of the gunwales, or if there is some rise to the sheer, small sections of dowels are inserted when bolting on the after frame crossbar to level the seat. Depending on the grade, the seats may be bolted on with surface mounted round-head brass machine screws, or the bolts may by countersunk and plugged.

 

[paul buettner]

my rushton inc 17' indian girl (year unknown, sn 5182) is ready to start putting the seat materials together. the front seat appears to have original cleats on the ribs, but the rear was hung when I started working on it. I dont see any evidence that the rear was ever on cleats on the ribs. can anyone confirm or deny what is likely the "correct" way. Also looking for a good place to get nice hardware to hang and cane for the seats.

If you are looking for long hanger bolts in order to position the seats lower, Merton's Fiberglass is a good source. They sell silicon bronze 3/16" carriage bolts in lengths up to 6". Those long ones are pricey, tho, and you want them hanging straight, supported by properly drilled dowels or spacers. I have begun to install all my seats on black ash rails across 5 ribs screwed thru each rib from the outside of the planking. The installation is tight & secure, & the seat becomes an additional thwart reinforcing the hull shape. What I like best is the freedom to position both bow & stern seats a little lower, more in the fashion of the Wenonah kevlar canoes that are so popular in this area. That enhances stability w/ a lower center of gravity, and assumes most paddlers will paddle from a sitting position, without absolutely ruling out the possibility of kneeling, if that is one's preference. Too, in place of cane over the seat frames, I use 5/32" nylon paracord, woven between drilled holes 1/2" apart and woven in a simple square weave pattern. Makes a strong, comfortable, & attractive seat. If white paracord is used, a couple of coats of spar varnish over the woven seat will soak thru the fibers & provide a more natural-looking color. Or you can use, as I prefer, black paracord, for a stronger color contrast.

Paul Buettner
Ely, MN