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Any designers out there?

Discussion in 'Strippers, Stitch-n-Glue, and Other Wood Composite' started by battle, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I'm planning on building a second stripper this winter, and once again, I'm searching for plans. Last winter I built an Outback 200, and was pleased with my results(after stretching the length by almost 4 feet). Here is a little info on that project; this canoe will be used for the same purpose. Although I love the Outback 200, I want a more traditional canoe with I finer entry and taller stems. The design I'm looking for would have a length of 23'-25' with a beam of 42"-48". I could scale up a Redbird(from canoecraft) by multiplying all the offsets by a common factor (i.e. 1.3), which would give me the proper dimensions(I think). The problem with this is, I also have to multiply my station spacing by the same factor, and I end up with excessive spacing between stations.

    I am hoping to find someone that could enter a design into some type of design/engineering software(autocad?), scale to the size I need, then generate station profiles on the 12" spacing that Moores suggest using.

    Any ideas or suggestions? I'm hoping there is a designer on the forum that is willing to help...

    thanks
    Paul
     
  2. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    I don't know about the Redbird, but the Freedom 17 scales up pretty well. I really wouldn't worry much about having 12" between the stations. It's not really very difficult to build a stripper with 24"-26" between the stations if it's a fairly large boat with pretty straight runs.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks for the advice, Todd. Tell me more about the canoes in the two pictures you attached!
     
  4. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    A fellow contacted me a few years ago because he knew I'd previously built a wood strip fur trade canoe. They were interested in building three simulated North Canoes with their church youth group that they could take on outings with the kids. We looked through a lot of existing plans for something that we could enlarge which had similar lines to the old boats down low, but which had more waterline beam. The old boats had fairly narrow bottoms and flared sides. They can be surprisingly twitchy if you don't have a big load inside for ballast. In order to make a better all-round, loaded/unloaded recreational boat, we needed something that had a more typical recreational canoe cross-section. As it turned out, the Freedom 17 was just about perfect and all they needed to do was to change the profile of the sheer and stems to give the boats the basic look of a North Canoe but maintain reasonable stability for group paddling when unballasted. The same thing (by the way) has been done to the designs for the vast majority of the voyageur-style canoe replicas that you see (keeps theme park visitors from dumping and being eaten by the mechanical alligators in the lagoons).

    We beefed up the strip thickness and layup schedule pretty well, but I can't remember exactly how much. A boat that size carrying that much weight has a lot of momentum if you hit a rock at five knots and you also need a pretty sturdy bottom to prevent hogging and bouncing when you have that sort of beam in a stripper. Somewhere I have a couple photos of the finished boats, which came out quite well, but I can't find them in my computer at the moment. These days, I'd be tempted to get hold of Tim Marchetti (see the recent 20' freight canoe building thread) and see if he was interested in modifying one of the freighters. If you were to double-end it and change the stem profile, the hull down below would probably be ideal - and he has all the technology needed to figure it out.
     
  5. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    thanks for the plug Todd.
    Paul I'd be happy to to help modify a design or start from scratch. Once the design is in the computer, I can create sections at any spacing that you want. I can create a mold or print out full size patterns.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    this design from Carrying Place Canoe might fit the bill. Scaling it up to 24ft. gives you a beam of 46 5/8"
     

    Attached Files:

  7. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    thought I would share what I came up with. LOA 24ft with a beam of about 47"
     

    Attached Files:

  8. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks to BFC fan!

    Tim Marchetti (BFC fan) is helping me with a custom design. He's been very helpful, and is producing a set of forms for me at a very reasonable price. I highly recommend him if any of y'all have a custom project.

    Do any of you have a source for 3/8" bead and cove router bits?
     
  9. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

  10. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Some pics from my latest project......24' LOA, 47" beam, Designed by Tim Marchetti
    IMG_1103.jpg

    IMG_1129.jpg

    IMG_0949.jpg

    IMG_1108.jpg

    IMG_1144.jpg
    And one random photo-My Daughter watching her friend play James "Super Chikan" Johnson's diddley bow at Quapaw Canoe Company's Christmas party. Check out the frog shaped dugout on the floor....
    IMG_1056.jpg
     
  11. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Wow! you are moving right along. I can't wait to see more. Can you get a person in the picture so we can see the scale? it must be impressive.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Will do, Tim. I'll try to get some better pictures up in the next day or two. Those cell phone pics were pretty blurry anyway. This is a BIG canoe- same length as the one I built last year, but much bigger in every other way. I think it will easily accommodate six-with camping gear. Here are some dimensions:

    LOA 24'
    Beam 47"
    Bow Height 32"
    Depth (at center) 16.5"

    I think she'll handle those 4-5 foot barge wakes with ease!:)
     
  13. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    new pic

    Here's a pic with me and my daughter standing next to it- should give y'all an idea of the size:
    IMG_1136.jpg
     
  14. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Awesome! It's cool to see the real thing come together. Were there any issues with the stations or mold set-up?
     
  15. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    The mold went together beautifully! It was wayyyyyyy easier to set up than my hand drawn, hand cut forms that I used last year. I just put them on the centerline of my strongback, and had almost no adjustments to make. Having a very sturdy, very straight, level strongback made it a snap. I did have to cut two inches off the base of all the stations except the stem and two end stations.
     
  16. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Paul
    I just looked at the drawings for the stations and they are indeed off. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm glad you caught it. I'm sorry for the hassle.
     
  17. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    Thought I'd post a rendering of what Paul is building.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. OP
    OP
    battle

    battle Curious about Wooden Canoes

    finished glassing!!

    Whew!- Finished with what I consider the most unpleasant part of building a stripper-glassing! On the outside, I used 2 layers of 10 oz. cloth overlapping on the bottom, and inside 2 layers overlapping with a "football" shaped layer on top of that. The hull feels very stiff, even with no trim. I was a little worried about clarity, using so many layers of heavy glass, but was pleased with the outcome.

    I'm now working on the gunwales, which I have decided to epoxy in place. I scarfed together 12' lengths of really nice cherry to make the 23 or so foot length needed. I went with full 1"x1" stock, because of the size of my canoe.
     
  19. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    Just finished glassing? The worst is yet to come: sanding!

    All the best with it -- take your time, you'll be glad you did...
     
  20. BFC fan

    BFC fan Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes

    well done. that is a lot of boat to prep and glass.
    I can't wait to see pictures
     

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