Getting planks to lay flush in stem area

[Scott Rowe]

So I tried searching for the answer to no avail. Hopefully someone would be kind enough to post a reply to what must be a common problem.

After replacing most of the stem in my Morris some of the plank edges between the stem and first cant rib will not lay flush. I've tried steaming them which has not worked. I wonder if my stem side that mates with the planking is at the wrong bevel forcing the plank to sit higher than adjacent planks. Also, I wonder if I've tacked a relaxed plank to the stem thereby taking the slight bow out of the plank causing it to not lay flush with adjacent planks. I want to avoid just taking a sander to it as it would just remove too much material. Anyone had this problem?

I should also mention that the plank end of the plank that sits proud of the adjacent planks also protrudes slightly passed the stem face. Although this boat has seen other repairs in this area I suspect that it may indicate I've tacked a relaxed plank. Hope this makes sense.

 

[divedog]

A picture would help me better understand your question.

 

[Scott Rowe]

The plank below the narrow plank sits higher (not flush) with adjacent planks in the area between the stem and the first cant rib. I'm contemplating removing the tacks and altering the stem to get it to sit flush. I've tried steaming/hot water but it won't stay.

 

[Scott Rowe]

The plank below the narrow darkened plank sit higher (not flush) with the adjacent larger plank. I'm considering removing tacks and altering the stem to get the wider plank to lay flush. Steam/hot water didn't work.

 

[Paul Fopeano]

Hey Scott,

In most cases sanding carefully won't really cause any problems unless someone has been a little overzealous before you. I use a sanding block about 20" long with a coarse grit and work diagonally across the area I want to fair. Many times the replacement planks I use are thicker than the originals due to the original fairing process. Where I don't want to take any more off the old plank I run my concave spokeshave just along the protruding edge of the new plank and then feather it off with a finer sanding avoiding the old wood. At the bow and stern, where you are concerned, I doubt that there has been much fairing so you have plenty of wood to work with.

If you are concerned that you might sand too much or not enough, try hand stretching a piece of canvas over the area and judge if it is as smooth as you would like it to be. If not, sand a little more until your happy.

Enjoy your canoe!

I've attached a picture of part of my fairing process on a real basket case of a Chestnut I rebuilt this past winter for a fellow in Maine. You won't have to go this far to get your boat right!

Paul
Onlyone Maine Made Wooden Canoe Works

 

[Greg Nolan]

The upper circled area seems to show the wider plank proud of the narrower plank above it -- is this where your problem is?

Is that wide plank also standing proud of the narrower plank below it, in the lower circled area?



If not, could be problem be with the higher narrow plank -- is it too thin, or warped? What is going on with that narrow plank in the squarish dark area? There seems to be a hole in the plank in that dark area. Was (is) there something behind the planking there?

 

[Scott Rowe]

Wow, you have a good eye! Exactly! Well almost. The hole was where I propped out the narrow plank with a backside split while it dried from applying steam. After drying the narrow plank resettled.

I wasn't sure if the narrow plank was low or the wide plank was high. But you're right the planks on both sides of the wide plank are lower than the wide plank. The wide plank also is the one that when tacking back onto the new stem protruded slightly beyond the stem (1/8 inch). I was then concerned that the wide plank had relaxed (straightened) and when I tacked it back to the stem that caused it to sit high.

The other side of the stern has a nice shape to it, so I made a template to copy the shape and compare it to the problem side where the narrow and wide plank reside. It apears that the wide plank may actually be right and the the narrow planks on either side are low. (Still doesn't explain how the wide plank protrudes past the stem).

Thank you guys for the advice so far. I'm listening carefully. BTW the stern stem was reworked before the whole boat got glassed. A rivet hole blew out the stem and the stem had a crook to it. So I replaced it. This is why I initially wasn't too alarmed at the wide plank sticking beyond the stem (just a little).

 

[Scott Rowe]

Yes, thanks for advice on fairing. I'm doing quite a bit of that as new planks I've installed especially at the butt joints sit quite high. I am taking great pains to bring them all level. I will not have a butt seam showing through my canvas! lol

I suspect once I figure out the problem plank in question a bit of fairing will be in order. I was tempted to make a small one inch splice into the gap on either side of the narrow plank to bring it level. That would mean there could be no expansion at that spot so don't know if that would work. Thanks for advice.

 

[Jerry Fruetel]

Just a thought-- assuming the problem plank and adjacent planks are all the same thickness, it might help to install an additional pair of simple cant ribs made from standard 5/32" planking stock.

 

[Scott Rowe]

That's a good thought! As it is my first restoration and this is a Morris I have tried to keep as much original planking and configuration possible. I have only replaced 13 feet of planking. The extra cant ribs would be confusing to a Morris expert. lol

As of now I plan to splice in two small toothpick sized pieces into the gap on either side of the narrow plank while holding it flush with wider planks. I then may replace the two small planks at the sheer near the deck as I believe they previously were sanded quite thin. I had kept them since they were the only deck sheer planks that survived the restoration and needed them for reference. I'll then fair everything with sanding. Of course I'll think on this some more while I tend to lots of other tasks, like addressing old tacks that pop up like a game of Whack A Mole! Thanks for the idea.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Did you tack the plank to the stem 1st? if so, that could be holding the plank out.
Seems like you should be able to it get the plank to lay on the rib with plenty of hot water and persuasion.

Dan

 

[Scott Rowe]

So this is the area between the stem and the first cant rib. So planks are correct at the cant rib but not behaving toward the stem. A template of the other side was used to see which planks were correct (high or low). The narrow plank in the picture sits low and the adjacent wider plank sits high and the two small planks at the sheer near the deck sit low.

I tried steam and hot water and the narrow plank came in line, but returned after it dried. (Although it was nailed at both the stem and cant rib at the time) I may give it another shot since it is currently not tacked to the stem anymore.)

 

[MGC]

I would push the board out from the back and trim a bit off of the part that is sticking out with a micro plane. You should be able to get the area fairly smooth by trimming.
It is not unusual for the boards to have a mind of thier own between the cants and the stem.
There have also been several recent posts about using faring compound.....

 

[Dave Osborn]

Five options...
Sand it...
Fill it with fairing compound...(QuikFair)
Or clinch tack a small batten on the inside...
Live with it and baby the seam when sanding....
Or some combination of the above.

Personally,,I would at least try a batten clinch tacked behind the bad spot... If it looked bad or didn't work you can always remove it. It doesn't need to be like a full can't rib....just something that will bridge the offending seam.

 

[Scott Rowe]

I got it the narrow plank to lay flatter with a hand held steam cleaner gizmo. I think the trick was removing tacks from stem for this. Looks encouraging. I think the rest is sanding, fairing and babying the seam and all will be good. This is a good learning experience. Thanks for the help!

Note: when I deglassed the hull I found a very small batten clinch (on the outside!) in the stem area near the deck but not where I'm having a problem.

 

[Howie]

Hi Scott. Another thing to keep in mind is that canvas covers a lot of sins. While edges (or tack heads) that sit above the surrounding are will be seen, edges that lie below surrounding areas will not be seen. This may work in your favor in this case since this area of the canoe does not have a lot bend to it. So maybe take a length of Saran Wrap and stretch it over the area and see it's really a concern.

 

[Scott Rowe]

Hey...good to know! I was wondering about the low spots.

So the narrow plank still wasn't fully flush, perhaps the hand held steam cleaner gizmo didn't have enough heat. I propped it from the backside temporarily and used some fairing compound. It now looks really good!