corrected serial number on Old Town? 18': 146528 18

[swededoc]

Hi,

Back again with a correct number. Took a small brass brush to clean off the paint a little, then holding a flashlight down low with raking angle light we got the correct number: 146528 18. If someone can post a copy of the build sheet that would be awesome, but even the basic grade and materials used would be great. I'm guessing it's a CS grade but I don't know. Another question: what separates the different grades? Is it only what I would call the 'trim'--decks, thwarts, inwales and gunwales? I see the the CS grades typically used red cedar planking. From my experience WRC is quite brittle, and from what I read, white cedar is more flexible. Why would you even use red cedar for planking then, is it the availability of WRC in longer, clear lengths over white cedar? I'll be removing the fiberglas, replacing the decks, thwarts, inwales and gunwales anyway, so this is an opportunity to restore it to a 'higher than original' grade--if that's kosher. But I'm not crazy about WRC for planking. I've worked with it a lot and it's definitely brittle. Any experience and thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

[smallboatshop]

Hi Jonathan,

Your canoe is an 18' CS grade (middle grade) Guide model with open spruce gunwales, a keel and bilge rails. It was built in 1946 and sold to a canoe livery in Grayling, MI.

This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA andhttp://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe.

Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Dan
smallboat shop
Denmark, Maine
www.smallboat-shop.com

 

[swededoc]

Hi Dan,

Wow, that's very neat to see that build sheet. Thank you for digging it up. Is that 'O.T.C. Co' at the top the 'Old Town Canoe Company'? Then on the grading, I'm comforted to know that the CS is not inferior to the AA in any structural or functional way--it almost doesn't matter since I'll be doing a complete restoration, unless the planking is WRC. I hope not because I know how brittle it is. There's only one broken plank on the entire canoe and it's broken in several places, so maybe we've got white cedar planking. Guess I'll have to wait until the fiberglass it stripped to find out. Even though it was a livery canoe it doesn't seem to have been abused. Can't quite understand why they would use spruce for gunwales on any canoe--I know it's light, strong for its weight and springy but it just doesn't hold up well. I also see that none of the other materials in the canoe are specified in the build sheet. It looks like the ribs are white cedar.

So, the questions are: is it an 'Old Town'? what is the 'Guide' model other than an 18 footer? and am I right about the white cedar planking being much more preferable than WRC?

Thanks again,
Jonathan

 

[smallboatshop]

Hi Jonathan,

I'll take a stab at a couple of answers to your questions. Others will probably have more and better information.
Old Town canoes had Western red cedar planking from the beginning of the company because of the long lengths. There are some OT's that had white cedar planking and that is indicated on the build records as "Maine Cedar". The ribs are Northern white cedar. The other woods in the canoes were locally available stock except for the Mahogany. The rails were spruce for CS grades and Mahogany or ash for AA grades.

Spruce rails stand quite well. We've worked on many that were 80 years old or better and the rails were just fine. Like the rest of the canoe, its the care that matters.

The hard woods for decks, thwarts and seats were local woods as well except for the Mahogany. Usually the same hardwood was used for the decks, thwarts and seats of each individual canoe. They were ash, maple, oak and birch.

I've attached a page from the 1946 Old Town Catalog that describes the Guide canoe. All of the Old Town catalogs have been compiled on a CD which is available at the WCHA store.

Hope this info helps.

Dan

 

[swededoc]

Hi Dan,

Thanks again for your response and the information. I took a scraper and peeled off a very small amount of the planking in an inconspicuous area inside. It's definitely WRC. I was thinking earlier that I wouldn't bother restoring a canoe with a WRC hull but that I would sell the canoe and look for one with white cedar. I've worked with WRC a fair bit and am acquainted with how brittle it is. Now I'm rethinking that position: first, thousands of canoes were made this way by highly reputable builders--it can't be all that bad; second, I'm guessing that the hull doesn't normally flex enough for the red cedar to crack; third, my hull is actually pretty sound with only one plank that's totally shot. So a few more questions: 1) How well do wood and canvas canoes perform in moderate whitewater and some rocks? Is this where the white cedar planking comes into play? or does the canvas get destroyed before any planking breaks? 2) How easy is it to find a 17' or 18' canoe for sale with white cedar hull in need of restoration and at a decent price and without having a serial number? Just trying to look at my options. I love the connection with 'Old Town', having grown up in the northeast and taking many trips down the Delaware; I love the sight of an aged, well varnished hull interior; I'm good with the idea of a restoration (partly because it makes owning one more affordable) and I love canoeing, canoe camping, etc. So let me ask your, or others' opinion: Do I stick with what I have (with a $175 investment), or can I find what I'm really looking for and invest my labor in that? I realize there are a lot of variables in all this, just looking for some additional input.

Thanks again,
Jonathan

 

[mccloud]

Western red cedar can be had in long and clear lengths, and is highly rot resistant, but does not bend well, so a good choice for planking. White cedar bends much easier without breaking, so a good choice for ribs. Both are relatively lightweight, as is spruce. Old Town built over 300, 000 canoes/boats with these woods, so something must work right. THe different 'grades' were built on the same forms, but the builders would be less careful with the quality of the woods used on the lower grades. The Guide would have been a heavier built canoe, a 'workboat' as opposed to a 'pleasure craft'. W/C canoes have run rivers for over 100 years, but after you have put a couple hundred hours into a restoration, every scratch hurts. I will paddle my restored W/C on a river with plenty of water in it, but will not scrape down a shallow, rocky river. Just my opinion, Tom McCloud

 

[Dave Wermuth]

I might add that the Guide Model had a more flat bottom and more initial stability and the curve of the shear was less upturned for less area the wind could work against.