Need Opinion on 47 Octa

F

FishnCanoe

Curious about Wooden Canoes
So I'm thinking of buying my first WnC. It needs new canvas for sure--it is glassed right now. The guy says the ribs and sheeting are in good shape--the keel looks to have rotted away or torn off. If that is the case--do you think the sheeting and ribs underneath could be rotted as well? The outwales definitely need to be replaced as well.

I've spent a lot of time in the saddle of a WnC canoe and know they are magic.

That being said--

How much would fair market value be to purchase it at? The guy wants 600--but I am VERY apprehensive at paying this and will be sure to talk to him about it prior to driving the 2 hours to take a gander.

Also--in your experience--how much money would it take to make her seaworthy with recanvassing, new outwales, stripping, painting, varnishing, etc? I had ballparked it at around 400$--am I out in left field on this one?

Thanks for any opinions
MT
 
In my opinion, $600 is too much for a glassed canoe. $400 is closer to being realistic, but still a lot for a glassed canoe, unless all other conditions are in good repair and it looks like the glass will be easily removed.
Some folks would not walk away from a glassed canoe,....they would run!!!
It is hard telling how much time and effort there is in removing it. Planking is likely to be damaged from the removal, if not already from being glassed. In my experience flat sawn planking can deteriorate a lot when bound by fiberglass and stressed by moisture cycles over time.

You may try to offer less, or wait for another one to come along. In some parts of the country it is rare to see a w/c canoe, but if you live where canoes of this sort are more common, you may want to shop a while.
A 2 hour drive to see a canoe doesn't seem that bad to me if you really want a canoe project......don't buy it sight unseen. Go take a look.

Materials alone for a complete restoration can get up to the $600+/_ area depending on what you have to buy pre-made, or can mill on your own.
 
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Any chance you can get pictures before you drive out to see it? If you post them here, people will be able to assess its condition better.

Peeling glass off is not difficult, but it's tedious, and takes forever. Free is an okay (but not great) price for it, if you have lots of spare time & nothing better to do. Otherwise, I'd keep looking.

I suppose it could be argued that, if it's your first attempt at canoe repair/restoration, this would be a good candidate; many people here would argue that it's already destroyed anyway, so you can only make it better.

:D
 
I figured I wouldn't post it if it was (by some stroke of luck) a good deal....but it's on ebay. I'm new to this whole forum.... Ha.

I do have time, but not a ton (I am a med student afterall) I figured I could have some real fun with my christmas money :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/OLD-TOWN-CANOE-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca9b8d9be

Zero bids for a reason I guess.

Any new opinions definitely appreciated--I'm planning on checking it out Friday, but will see how flexible the price is before I take the hike.

Thanks again,

MT
 
The important thing is whether you like the canoe... the one in the video showing Denis removing fiberglass is one we both thought was worth the trouble.

If the Otca doesn't work out, you might want to check out the classifieds on this site. Or look through the pictures in "canoe photo index" and see if anything there rings any bells... then set your cap for whatever that is.

Kathy
 
The eBay seller says "Two additional keels were added for stability." The two bilge keels were more likely added to protect the hull from rough treatment -- from being dragged over rough (rocky) ground to get to the water, or often dragged through shallow (rocky) water. Bilge keels are rarely added for "stability" because they aid stability only minimally -- though they are likely to make the canoe less nimble. The raggedy condition of the bottom of the canoe -- torn fiberglass, missing keel section, missing bilge keel section -- would seem to confirm that, somehow, the bottom of the boat has taken a bit of a beating. If you do go to see it, check carefully for broken planking -- which can be repaired, of course, and which would need to be repaired. Your time and materials for such repairs should = lower purchase price.
 
All good advice, and at $500 you should have a nice choice of projects, perhaps even a paddler if you hunt around - provided there are w/c canoes in your area. Dont toss that xmas money too quickly, you may have to add as much again depending on what you get.
 
Oh, there is a lesson here..

In this CASE, I think you may consider the oath, " FIRST DO NO HARM ! "...and take it very personally. ie. you probably should not do this. On the other hand, should you press ahead, you will learn a great deal about yourself, not always a regrettable experience, but I would settle for the lesson learned in the WALKAWAY.
 
How do you look up a serial number for the build sheet--the guy did not do it. I am still considering it, but definitely going to talk about $$.... Maybe I'm crazy, but I figure it's worth a try.

Serial is 148164

Thanks
 
Fish,
Kathy has just flown out to the Wcha board meeting in NY. So I won't post the build record because I don't know how. However, here is the information.
Shipped June,10 1947 to YMCA camp Birkett Pinckney Mi.
It is a 17 ft. Otca, Western Cedar planking, open spruce gunnels no listing for decks,thwarts and seats, painted dark green.
May someone else can post the build record. Hope this fits the canoe -if not let us know.
Denis
 
Although it addresses a potential seller's question about canoe value, you should read the thread at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=57 if you have not already.

And for perspective, I'll give a little information about a canoe I bought on eBay abut a year ago. A 1931 15' Old Town 50 pounder, it was first described as having sound wood except for two quarter-sized holes in the planking, and otherwise needing no more than, perhaps, new canvas, and perhaps new cane to replace leather thongs in the seats. Sharp-eyed potential bidders pointed out a few things in the listings pictures, and the seller (who I believe was acting in good faith, but who know nothing about canoes) acknowledged well before bidding closed, that there were at least three cracked ribs as well as the broken planking. The photos also showed a slightly damage outwale tip. The canoe was in a remote part of Maine, a serious schelp for most people, but only a bit more than an hour's trip for for me. (A difficult pick-up limits the number of potential buyers, and so should be a factor arguing for a low price.).

Though there were a number of bids, I had the winning bid at $455.

The canoe is usable in the condition I bought it in, though I have recaned the seats and given it a couple of coats of paint. It will get restored in a few years, but I have been using it, and expect to continue using it until then.

The canoe in question that you are looking at has damage both to the fiberglass covering and to some of the wood (certainly to the keels and most likely to planking and ribs) that makes it unusable as is. As I write, it is about 5 hours before eBay bidding closes and there is not one bid. If you get it, you know you have the task of taking the glass off, and then finding planking that is rotted and/or broken from impact, and most likely finding damaged ribs. (It is my observation that sellers rarely see even obvious damage to ribs.)

If you have a $500-600 budget, I think you could do much better than this canoe. But it can be restored, so IF you want to take on the work, and IF you can get it for much much much less than the asking price, go to it.

It is also my experience that the passage of time may bring down the price of an over-priced canoe in need of restoration. Many sellers start out with very unrealistic expectations about the value of an old, beat-up canoe. Having it sit in their garage or yard for several months after advertising, while people look and then walk away can soften the price considerably to be more in line with the actual value of the canoe.

If the canoe does not sell on eBay, you might consider waiting a few weeks before going to take a look -- if the seller really wants to get rid of the canoe, he may be happy to hear a low offer, after not hearing any offers and perhaps seeing other potential buyers walk away.
 
Someone did me the favor of buying it...no decision needed as I could not be around for the ending bid :D. New post--WTB 16-17 ft WC canoe 400$ max within 4 hours of Minneapolis or Des Moines area

Cheers
 
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