I've been thinking about keel shape...

[Howie]

I've been thinking about keels. There was a discussion here about keels a while back - I won't repeat or summarize here. But... has anybody played with the keel's shape?

How about a keel that is shallow at the front and tapers to a more normal size at the stern. Or maybe a keel that is thin like a shoe keel for the front half and tapers thicker to the stern. Mightn't either shape be a happy compromise from the typical 1" deep keel or the 'shoe' keel? You'd still get some rigidity benefit, plus a little help paddling in a straight line and some bottom protection. But it could certainly make the canoe more maneuverable. The only difficulty I see is how to securely screw into the thin wood at the front - the show keel has the same problems I imagine.

Actually, I first started off thinking of having only half a keel - it'd extend from mid canoe to the stern, but that'd be a disaster if you smacked into something end on!

Just playing with ideas...

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Howie,

I think you are over thinking it.
Just leave it off and don't put holes in the new canvas.

Dan

 

[Howie]

O yeah, you're right. A guy can't help but think though...

 

[Rob Stevens]

Ditto the over-thinking/design. Really, what are you hoping to achieve?
The notion that a keel helps with tracking is a tired old chestnut.
There are many reasons keels retain their time-honored shape & length. Otherwise, they'd be called skegs, bilge keels, bang strips,...

 

[Benson Gray]

I would encourage you to try out some of these ideas and let us know what you think of how they work.

Benson

 

[Howie]

Hey - encouraging words! Thanks!
Actually what I'll do for the one I'm starting now (Penn Yan Rainbow) is make the keel less tall. It's in great shape (no broken ribs) and has a really nice bottom profile - by that I mean the keel isn't really needed to smooth out the bottom.

 

[Denise MsWdnBoat]

I don't like them on canoes, we made one but never installed in on one. I think it was 1-1/8" with a 1/2" bottom and about 3/4" high tapered right to and under the stem bands. Looked great! But just could not bring ourselves to drill holes in all those ribs and new canvas!




Now if a canoe keel were backed up with something of equal size on the inside it would certainly add some strength. But of course the floor becomes quite encumbered.

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

Personally, I hate keels on canoes and think how a canoe performs going sideways is nearly as important as how well it moves forward. However.... the concept of paddling boats which are specifically made to track better at their aft end than they do at their forward end is not at all new. Granted, it was generally done using the stem design and profile, rather than with a partial keel strip added, but the Hazen Micmacs that I used to trip in, some of the marathon boats I've paddled, and the entire line of Mariner sea kayaks were built with what could be considered "rudder sterns", where the stern stem literally had more material in the water back at that end of the boat to increase tracking without making the hull overly difficult to turn.

 

[Howie]

Interesting - I figured someone had to have given this some thought before me. Thanks!

 

[Andre Cloutier]

The notion that a keel helps with tracking is a tired old chestnut.

You better not be referring to my canoe collection....

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Keels were put on over 90% of the Old Town canoes, as I recall. I was an anti keel-ite once. But Ive noticed that keels protect the hull when out of water and they really do aid in handling for straight line travel. A recent trip in Quetico with a keeled canoe proved much easier than the prior trips keeless. Holding course on rough water is better with a keel. At least in my experience. Also, one of the other boats did not have a keel and they reported problems holding course in wind and waves. I haven't noticed a keel vs. non keel discussion in a while so, why not stir the pot?

Howie. I think a 7/8" keel is about right, 3/4 if you want to downsize. Taper the ends, bevel the sides, hollow the back to your tastes.

 

[Todd Bradshaw]

They're good if you want to add some excess weight to your canoe and keep it down low. Personally, I've found that holding a course in rough water is more a matter of the person holding the paddle than whether or not the canoe has a keel. From a boat design standpoint, it's also a very inefficient way to increase tracking, compared to modifying the rocker profile and stem shapes - as can be witnessed in the design of many modern canoes and marathon racing boats which track like they're on rails with no keels. To each his own.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

I've paddled the exact same antique canoe without and then with keel (paddled a filled and painted antique O.T. HW, then put the keel back on and paddled again) - it most definitely made a difference. The degree of effect may vary among old canoe models, but when I tested it in this HW, there was a very obvious effect. Of course paddle handling affects tracking, but so does a keel. And a standard keel doesn't add significantly to the weight of a boat. Yes, weight matters, but there are also many other things we could do to reduce weight that we don't do. Maybe rip out all the beautiful mahogany trim of a nice old boat and replace it with spruce? Not me. What's more, diet and exercise for two weeks can more than offset the weight of a keel. And finally, Howie isn't designing a modern canoe or marathon racing boat; he's not fiddling with hull shape. He's restoring an old canoe in which hull shape is already there, so...

So yes, to each his own. Building a new boat? Design as you wish. Restoring an old one? Leave the keel off or put it back on as you wish. Me? I'd rather put it back on for better tracking (demonstrated in my own hands), to fill all those screw holes as they were originally filled (I've seen them plugged - very ugly), and because that's the way the boat was. But that's just me.

 

[Howie]

Thanks all. I'll continue to add keels to canoes that originally had one, although I'll make them less tall so they'll have less affect on turning. I've only gotten my hands on one canoe that didn't have a keel - a Huron - and I'll not be adding one. I'll be ready for paint in a few weeks so in a month or so I'll be able to see for myself how a keel-less canoe handles.

 

[Rob Stevens]

Replacement ash shoe-keel installed. Not yet painted. Still need to add brass stembands.

 

[JClearwater]

I will offer my two cents worth – and even at two cents you may be over paying. Of the several canoes I have restored all of them had keels so I put them back on. As was stated above I also don’t like the look of old keel bolt holes with no bolts. The other reason I added the keels back on was because of the way I have to store my boats. I have to store them in the second story of my barn and in getting them in and out through the hay loft door the keel always rubs on the door sill. Without a keel the canoe bottom would be abused. I would rather the keel get scratched than the bottom.

In my opinion the ability of two paddlers to make a canoe go straight has more to do with their paddling ability than the presence or absence of a keel. If you can’t make the canoe go straight without a keel then adding one will not solve the problem. Proper paddling technique with the bow paddler and stern paddlers in sync with each other and the stern paddler rarely making a non-power correcting stroke will go a long way toward happy partners going in the direction they want to go. Most of us could benefit from a few lessons to get rid of bad habits. Tandem kayaks are often referred to as “divorce boats” because the two paddlers, if not in sync, constantly hit paddles together leading to “you’re not doing it right” as part of every discussion during every trip on the water.

Having said all that, I am currently working on my first canoe that was built without a keel. I do not plan on adding one.

Jim