Old Town Canoe ID & Dating please...

[Howie]

A fella has asked me to help date his Old Town, serial # 8777-16. He says the canoe has been in the Schroon Lake area in NY's Adirondacks area for decades. His family has had a place up there for five generations. They use it as a decoration in their kitchen. Looks to be in nice shape...

 

[MGC]

A fella has asked me to help date his Old Town, serial # 8777-16. He says the canoe has been in the Schroon Lake area in NY's Adirondacks area for decades. His family has had a place up there for five generations. They use it as a decoration in their kitchen. Looks to be in nice shape...

Howie,
Perhaps this needed to get posted in the serial number section of the forum?
Fabulous cribbage hand depending upon the deck card...15 two, 15 four, 15 six and three of a kind for 6 and....
At any rate and as we discussed, could be 1909ish?
Andre will appreciate the nice big grab handle so prominently dressing up the deck.
Mike

 

[Benson Gray]

The Old Town canoe with serial number 8777 is a 16 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, HW (Heavy Water) model with red western cedar planking, closed spruce gunwales, spruce decks, spruce thwarts, spruce seats, spruce outside finish rails, and a keel. It was built between January, 1908 and February, 1909. The original exterior paint color was first dark red and then repainted dark green. It was shipped on February 25th, 1909 to New York City. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link at the attached thumbnail image below.

This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to renew.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description don't match the canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[Howie]

Thanks Benson. Much appreciated as always!

 

[1905Gerrish]

Benson I see spruce seats, decks and thwarts in the build info. Certainly not the norm today. Was this normal for OT back then or just run into a shortfall of hardwood for the week?

 

[Benson Gray]

Was this normal for OT back then or just run into a shortfall of hardwood for the week?

No, spruce was clearly not their first choice for trim so this indicates a shortage of hardwood as you suggested. The primary reason for Old Town's purchase of the Carleton Canoe Company in March of 1910 was for their timber rights and saw mill since the supply of good woods was often a limiting factor for production.

Benson

 

[Howie]

Benson, seems every time you 'speak' I learn something. I wasn't aware of the Old Town / Carleton link mentioned above. Thanks!

 

[Benson Gray]

I wasn't aware of the Old Town / Carleton link mentioned above.

The original documents supporting my assertion below may also interest you. The first is the public announcement of the ownership change and the second is the treasurer's report from the Old Town Canoe Company that opens saying "The year closing Dec. 31, 1910 marked an accomplishment of the utmost importance to our advancement, i.e. the acquirement of a means of handling economically and surely our stores of native cedar." It goes on to say that they purchased "the Carleton Canoe Co., thus giving us the means of producing from the log at minimum cost the ribs used in our canoes. ... to provide for our needs considerably in advance, which was not assured before."

Benson

 

[Terrya957]

Can anyone help me with dating this old town canoe, serial no 8130 16. All mahogany fittings with half ribs.

 

[Benson Gray]

Can anyone help me with dating this old town canoe, serial no 8130 16. All mahogany fittings with half ribs.

Probably, but you will probably need to supply some pictures of the serial numbers from both ends and the surrounding area along with a few showing the interior of the canoe. The information at https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/791/ and https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/15272/ may help. The Old Town with number 8130 is 17 feet long and didn't have half ribs. The Carleton with this number is 16 feet with long mahogany decks but it also had ash thwarts, ash seats, and no half ribs. The Kennebec with this number is 18 feet long. None of the Old Town canoes in the 8130x series are 16 feet long with half ribs. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Terrya957]

Typo , it is 9130

 

[Terrya957]

Here are a few pictures

 

[Benson Gray]

Welcome, the Old Town canoe with serial number 9130 is a 16 foot long, AA (or top) grade, HW (Heavy Water) model with red Western cedar planking, open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, mahogany thwarts, mahogany seats, half ribs, mahogany outside finish rails, and a keel. It was built between April and June, 1908. The original exterior paint color was a special purple with the initials H. E. R. on the right and left sides of the bow. It shipped on June 16th, 1908 to Northeast Harbor, Maine. There is also a note that it may have come back to the factory for repairs on July 27th, 1934. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link at the attached thumbnail image below.



This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will donate, join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Thanks,

Benson

 

[Terrya957]

Thank you for all of this, that’s really great information, and so fast. Is it possible to see the original color chips? It has been partially restored but no paint yet. Was planning on green, but might be fun to go for the special purple

 

[Benson Gray]

That paint was probably custom mixed to match a sample provided by the customer. See https://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?attachments/36784/ for a similar example. My usual suggestion is to just pick a color and shade that you like. Good Luck,

Benson

 

[Terrya957]

Thanks, yes, purple would not be my first choice. This canoe stayed in north east harbor until just a few years ago when it was given to my brother. The original owner was an interesting man who lived in my home town of Baltimore and was director of the Peabody institute of music. Thanks for getting me started on this historical diversion.

 

[Benson Gray]

I stopped by the factory last week and photographed both sides of the original scan as shown below. It was repaired as recently as 1963 and returned to Northeast Harbor.

Benson