New Guy needs help

58 Wagon

New Member
Hey Guys,

I'm a newbie from WI. I've been a long time lover of old stuff. I drive classic cars and live in a 1800's farmhouse. I've been looking for a antique canoe to go on top of my 1958 Chevy wagon for car shows and one that I can also take out on the lakes or rivers by my house. A co-worker mentioned that he had a late 1920's old town that he wanted to get rid of.

He brought me some pictures today. Sorry they're scans of printouts. I guess the canoe is 18 feet long, 36" wide, and has keel. He thought it might have a been a larger canoe used by guides. His father bought it back in the 1950's and the canvas was in rough shape so he fiber glassed over it and then painted it. The caning was replaced with clothes line. To me it looks like the holes were probably drilled out as well to get the clothes line through but he said they weren't.

The fiberglass is starting to peel away from the canvas so that would either have to be repaired or stripped off and restored properly with new canvas.

He said it weighs a lot. He's a big guy and can't lift it by itself. I'm not sure if that's from the fiberglass or if it was just a heavier duty model.

He's asking 900 dollars for it. I did some research last night and I think it should be about half of that or less due to condition. I know restored models are worth quite a bit but they probably coast more to restore than they bring when they sell if you factor in your time. Maybe I'm wrong. Let me know what you guys think.
 

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Hi New Guy,

He has his sites a bit high.

The first thing to notice is the lack of bow or stern tips on this canoe. The inwale, outwale and deck tip are all gone and glassed over. You don't know how stuck the glass is to the canoe as it can be easy to remove or very difficult to remove.

It is also hard to tell, but it's possible he put resin all over the inside as well.

This could be a major restoration project. I'm sure you can find a better candidate.

Good luck,


Paul
 
Hi New Guy,

He has his sites a bit high.

The first thing to notice is the lack of bow or stern tips on this canoe. The inwale, outwale and deck tip are all gone and glassed over. You don't know how stuck the glass is to the canoe as it can be easy to remove or very difficult to remove.

It is also hard to tell, but it's possible he put resin all over the inside as well.

This could be a major restoration project. I'm sure you can find a better candidate.

Good luck,


Paul

Paul,

Are the inwale and outwale actually gone? I'm not an expert i was just looking at the diagram found on this website and looking at the pictures it looks like they're still there and the outwale looks like it could be glassed over?? I don't think the inside has resin but I can check to see if that's the case. Where are the bow, stern, and deck tips located? I looked at a few diagrams online and i didn't see those areas pointed out.

Sorry for the newbie questions, but i am a newbie. My vocabulary is a little more tuned to the automotive world.

Oh he also called up a restoration shop and they said without seeing it they would guess 400-900 dollars so he lowered his price to 500.

Thank you,

Scott
 

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The tips are the ends of the canoe. If a canoe is stored upside-down with the tips on the ground, they will rot... this is something frequently seen on wooden boats. Those who have restored a few canoes know that fiberglass was once used to cover-over rotted areas... like a more permanent form of duct tape.

The fiberglass is probably why this canoe is so weighty-- especially if the canvas was left in place and glassed-over. If this is the case, however, that glass might come off more easily. But that's a risk you shouldn't have to take unless the canoe was about $200 (or less). Most of the folks involved with restoring wood/canvas canoes shy from those that are glassed, unless the canoe has historic or sentimental value or is exactly what they've been hunting for.

If you're going to be handling the canoe by yourself, you might want to consider a 16 footer rather than an 18 footer.

If you look on the upper face of the stem on the floor of the canoe (at both ends), you should see a serial number that can be posted in the "serial number search" section of these forums, and you can get more details about this canoe. It could well be from the late '20s and the holes in the seats are for hand-woven caning. Or you could suggest to the fellow who's selling the canoe that he do this, and along with lowering his price, he may find a buyer.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide... and please continue to post about what you finally decide and show us pictures. I'd love to see your old canoe on top of your Chevy. Incidentally, there are two chapters of the WCHA located in Wisconsin... many good folks who might live near enough to you to help with this project.

Kathy
 
Here is a crude drawing of what the tips of your suspect canoe should look like drawn on your picture.

Also attached is how it should look. Maybe not quite so high a curve to the gunnel, but you get an idea.

Hope that helps.

Paul
 

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Thank you for the clarifications guys! Paul, those pictures helped a lot. I thought something looked off to me when I looked at the pictures of the canoe but I couldn't tell what it was.

I'll definitely keep you guys posted if I decide to try to purchase this one or if I find another one locally. I'm not sure if I really have time for another project, but i don't know if I'd shell out the money that the nicer restored/original units are bringing. I can get a decent used boat, engine, and trailer for that kind of coin.

A smaller/lighter canoe would be nice for single person use, the larger one would be a lot more stable for me though. Decisions, decisions.
 
While one person can muscle an 18 foot canoe around for a while, it is not something that most people enjoy. A 15 foot (or maybe a 16 foot) canoe is usually the maximum used for solo paddling; both lengths are quite suitable for tandem paddling also. An 18 foot canoe almost demands tandem paddling, and is generally used by people who like to carry a lot of gear when camping. And an 18 foot canoe with two skins -- fiberglass over canvas -- is certainly way to heavy for enjoyable solo use.

While length does impact stability, it is not the primary factor. The width of the canoe and the shape of its bottom are considerably more important. Stability itself is a somewhat variable concept. A wide flat-bottomed canoe might be stable enough to stand in and fly cast for lake trout in calm water; a somewhat more rounded bottom boat with a narrower beam will likely be more stable when paddling in rough water. A long canoe that the wind easily blows around while being paddled solo will generally seem much less stable than a shorter canoe being paddled solo in windy conditions.

Further, a 15 or 16 foot canoe, if properly built, is readily car-topped -- not too heavy, not too unwieldy. An 18 footer is going to be noticeably heavier, and aside from the increased weight, the extra length makes it rather more awkward to carry. And the extra weight of fiberglass over canvas on the canoe you are looking at will make car-topping a real chore.

Also, keep in mind that you are not limited to choosing between either a project boat that needs significant restoration before it sees water, or a fully restored beauty.

There are a lot of canoes out there in somewhat rough condition that can be enjoyed now with some minor work, with full restoration to follow. Our own 1931 15' Old Town above came with a few cracked ribs, some split planking, seats that needed re-weaving, a damaged gunwale, canvas at the end of its life, and in serious need of new paint. We have used it a lot for the past five years -- it has been painted (a matter of a few hours) -- once just to get it in the water, and then later, unnecessarily and just for fun to apply some decoration; the cane seats were rewoven (a matter of a couple of evenings while watching TV), and a carry thwart was installed instead of the original center thwart (not necessary -- I just prefer a carry thwart). The serious restoration -- replace cracked ribs and planks, repair/replace gunwale, new canvas -- is still to be done.

sm 100_9032 ed.JPG sm 100_9097.JPG

When restoration is finished, I hope it will be quite a nice canoe. In the meantime, while not perfect, it has been most enjoyable to use, and even in its somewhat worn condition, has drawn compliments from passers-by. And I paid a lot less than half the asking price of the boat you have been looking at for a boat that was useable right away with almost no work (and most of that was cosmetic).

So keep looking -- don't rush -- and you'll find the right canoe.

Greg
 
See above post by Macky. I got one you might like. I don't mean no disrespect but I would not give $100 for the one posted above. Maybe if it were free I'd take it but it takes a lot of time and money to fix one and you are right it's worth less than what you'll invest.

Also, think about car shows and how you will open the hood with a canoe on top.
 
I'm going to pile on....RUN, don't walk away from this.
For your purpose (to pose the canoe on your car) and to occasionally paddle, it makes no sense to tackle a lengthy restoration of a valueless clunk. Your cost in materials and time will grossly outweigh the cost of buying a nicely restored boat from the WCHA classifieds.
Take few minutes and look at all of the canoes that are available for $2,000 or less. These are in your price range if you consider the eventual cost of buying and restoring the clunk.
And odds are a canoe from the classifieds here is more likely have been done quasi-right and not been someones first restoration.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to pass on the canoe, I love saving old stuff but this one is a battle I'll let somebody else fight. I'm sure somebody will save it but it's not going to be me. I'm going to do some more research on canoes and try to narrow my criteria down. I'm a big guy and tall so I'm top heavy, i need to find a stable canoe. I think I'm going to borrow a few friend's an family members modern units and see if there is a shape I like and go from there.

Dave,

If you were closer I might come and take a look but I'm road tripped out right now. I'll be traveling a lot for work the last half of the year so I'll drop you a line if those travels take me to MI.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Where in WI are you? There are many WCHA members there... and the WCHA began its life in Madison. If you are near Spooner, you might want to check out the Wisconsin Canoe Heritage Museum and its many examples of canoes. Canoes by Thompson Bros and Shell Lake abound, as well as Old Towns. You live in a state with great paddling waters, and a canoeing tradition.

Kathy
 
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