Morris Stain

[JClearwater]

I am currently working on a 16' Morris. It has short heart shaped decks, thwarts and seat frames made from Mahogany. Inwales, 'D' shaped outwales and gunwale caps are spruce. I'm not sure that the interior, ribs and planking were originally stained dark as Kathy and Dennis suggested most Morris canoes were. I stripped the interior to remove the old varnish as well as gobs of yellow paint. The ribs and planking are now nice and clean. If there was originally dark stain it came out with the stripping. Dennis came up with a formula mixing Minwax stains that he and Kathy figured closely matched the original Morris color. Does anyone have a picture or two of a restored Morris that was stained using that formula? I would like to see what it looks like before I proceed on our canoe. My intention is to stain the Mahogany parts as well as the gunwales but I hesitate to do the interior without seeing how another canoe turned out.

You can see in the attached photo that the existing varnish was filthy dark, old, dried and flaking in spots. In the areas where the varnish flaked off the wood underneath does not appear that dark to me, suggesting it was never stained.

Thanks, Jim

PS: This canoe was extra special. It came with a bird nest under one of the decks and heaps of mouse poop under the other. I guess the critters came to an agreement - birds to the bow, mice to the stern.

 

[Dave Wermuth]

Here's a photo of a Morris I did years ago. I believe it was all original. I had to put it back together after a drunk drove at high speed all the way through the boat house.

 

[Gil Cramer]

Jack McGreivey claimed that Morris actually used ox blood stain for the interior of their canoes. I have no way of knowing if that is correct. but they looked as though it could be .

 

[JClearwater]

Thanks Dave and Gil.
I am not at the point yet where I am ready to stain so I am going to wait a bit and ruminate over the issue. Attached is the thread from Kathy with the stain formula and a couple pictures of their canoe. The lighting in the pictures shows the new stain quite dark, and the canoe has no varnish on it yet so the final look may be quite different. I'm going to Google "Ox Blood Stain" and see what comes up. I hope it's not real Ox blood because, well, you know....

Thread 'Morris Stain Formula'

Oct 13, 2010

Here's the formula Denis devised for staining the interior of a B.N. Morris canoe:

Using Minwax products:

2 parts Red Mahogany 225
2 parts Golden Oak 210B
1 part Special Walnut 224
1 part Sedona Red 222

• Kathryn Klos
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Wood and Canvas

 

[dtdcanoes]

Always been a mystery to me why there is so much objection to staining mahogany while readily accepting the Morris obliteration of beautiful cedar patina and the variety of grain patterns ( assuming one did a fine stripping job on deserving wood ). I know it is consistent with the Morris way , but..... just my overriding aesthetic, I guess.
Dave

 

[MGC]

On my current Morris, I chose not to stain the wood. Other Morris and the Veazie I owned all looked like someone had anointed them with a can of Baltimore Oriole pine tar. It's not a great look.
My Morris is a pretty B Flat canoe so although it is properly restored, it has always been a canoe I use, not one that is intended to be a museum or show piece. It looks fine without the stain, at least to me. It's acquired a nice patina since I last restored it.
I own a Carleton that has a dreadful reddish stain on the wood. I don't think I will re-stain it when I finally get around to stripping it. The Wolf Pond I once owned had a blackish stain on it. Chris managed to get rid of most of it when he restored it.
I think I'm with Dave on letting the wood shine through for what it is.

 

[Benson Gray]

The Wolf Pond I once owned had a blackish stain on it.

My centerboard sailing canoe also has a 'muddy' stain on the decks. I've heard that Old Town and other builders would occasionally use stain to even out the natural variations in mahogany. I would prefer the variations over the stain. Good luck to Jim with this decision,

Benson

 

[Mark Giovannetti]

Hi Jim,

The red and white Morris below I used Kathy's Morris stain formula on the interior. The unrestored green Morris I think is the same as yours. 16' with D shaped spruce rails and mahogany decks ( painted brown). When I restored this I left the interior alone. I believe it was original. I did play around a bit and came up with a different formula that matched this sort of. I'll have to get back to you with that.

 

[Mark Giovannetti]

Here's some of the interior cleaned up on the green Morris.

 

[Mark Giovannetti]

One more comment. The red and white Morris above I started working on with Jack McGreivey shortly before he passed away. It was the last canoe we worked on together. I had the interior stained before he got sick. His comment was he thought it was too dark.

 

[chris pearson]

Mark, I think it looks great! And sometimes we don’t have much choice in the matter…

 

[JClearwater]

Hi Jim,

The red and white Morris below I used Kathy's Morris stain formula on the interior. The unrestored green Morris I think is the same as yours. 16' with D shaped spruce rails and mahogany decks ( painted brown). When I restored this I left the interior alone. I believe it was original. I did play around a bit and came up with a different formula that matched this sort of. I'll have to get back to you with that.

 

[Gil Cramer]

Jack McGreivey said that Morris used oxblood or pigeon blood to stain the interior. I don't remember which. To quote Tom Mackenzie" they were just building boats". So whatever color suits your fancy is good enough. Canoes have always been utilitarian!!!!!!!!!!! Gil

 

[JClearwater]

Thanks guys for the great replies. Mark, if you could post the formula you came up with I would be keen to see it. The red and white canoe you did does seem a bit dark to me but not as dark as the one that Dennis and Kathy posted back in 2010. I tend to agree with Jack. I may just stain a little to even out the overall color but not so much that it is obviously dark. I'm not convinced that our canoe was stained dark in the first place.

 

[Stony33]

Hello, piggybacking here… also working on my first cedar/canvas restoration.

If one DID decide to stain the cedar interior, would you also treat with boiled linseed oil/turp mixture after the stain was dry?

Thx

 

[MGC]

IF one did, and for what it's worth, I never put that mixture inside a canoe. I only put it only on the outside. I always varnish the inside first so that if this blend comes through from the outside, that it is not absorbed.
On the inside I use thinned good quality spar varnish on the first coats. I use thicker varnish with ensuing coats.
I will occasionally use shellack as a first coat but only on Rushton canoes and for color.

 

[Stony33]

Thank you

 

[Stony33]

Hi,
How many litres/gallons of stain are typically needed for the interior of a 14’ canoe, including seats, gunwales? Thx.

 

[Dave Osborn]

I would think a quart would do the whole thing…,

 

[Stony33]

Great. Thanks for the input