Characteristics of B.N. Morris 17' Model 34-A

[Scot T]

I purchased the 17' Morris plan(s) from Rollin Thurlow a number of years ago with the idea of doing a stripper of it. When my stripper days came to a painful and abrupt end due to a severe rash from the epoxy (no-one likes to see a stripper with a rash) I turned to wood/canvas to satisfy my canoe building obsession. The plans got shelved.

I just came across the plans in my box of "canoe plans" and rekindled my love for the design. I'm looking for a winter project and am considering adding this to the "short list" I'm compiling. Has anyone had experience with this model? Paddling characteristics? Stability? Load capacity? How would it do on a couple week camping trip on the Boundary Waters or relatively large deep river like the Yukon River (Whitehorse to Dawson, anyone)?

Any comments welcome.

 

[Giiwedin]

I have one. It's a lovely day paddler in sheltered water under moderate load. Stable and fast. Beautiful lines.

Unfortunately, it's much too shallow for two weeks in BWCA with packs, or a big northern river like the Yukon. High bow/stern can make handling difficult in strong winds. With a keel, it's less maneuverable in rapids (although not impossible, of course). For extended tripping you'll need a deeper boat, like a Chestnut Prospector or Rollin's Atkinson Traveler (a really good choice).

 

[Scot T]

Thank you for the reply Giiwedin. That's exactly what I thought the answer would be. I was considering some alterations (lowering) to the bow/stern and adding a little depth but no real need to make things hard for myself when there are some excellent designs ready to build.

I have a couple Greenwood Prospector Special's that are excellent tripping boats. They are 16' long with 38" beam, 14" depth and come in around 85-90lbs. which can be a little "barge like" to portage. But beautiful stable craft that are very well made. I love them in spite of being heavy.

I am looking for something a little longer, sleeker, faster and maybe +/- 70 lbs.

I'm not fond of the Prospector but I do like its brother the Pal. I'll have another look at Rollin's Atkinson Traveler. It is a beautiful boat for sure and seems to be along the lines of what I'm looking for.

 

[Giiwedin]

The Chestnut Prospector is well suited to long wilderness trips. I have 2,500 miles on my 17', but it is a bear on the portages (double-ribbed). My 16' Pal is too short and too shallow for serious tripping, but a joy to paddle empty, Cananadian-style.

The Traveler is faster and more maneuverable than the Prospector and at 17.5'/36" it's long and broad enough for big loads and big water. I have one that Rollin built extra deep (by 1.5") and light (only 70 lbs). It may be the best tripping canoe of all.

 

[MGC]

Here tis

.

I'll have another look at Rollin's Atkinson Traveler. It is a beautiful boat

The photo in my signature is the boat my son and I built in Rollin's shop. I have owned and still own lot's of canoes. None of them paddle as nicely as this canoe does. It handles loads, white water, waves etc. like a dream. It tracks better without a keel than most of the canoes that I own that have them. Do take a look at this canoe if you want a really nice all around boat.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

A couple comments.

1) It would seem that a canoe for Northern river tripping would be very different then on for use on the lakes in the BW/Q. While the most common length there is 17-18.5 ft, there are plenty of folks who use 16 ft'ers also, and they work find.

2) Being a large guy, for us the AT is a very tippy design, I haad to kneel to keep us dry, might be better loaded with packs but unloaded, no.
This summer I sold 2 John Winters Winisks for the same reason, just too tippy. They were find when my son was the bow paddlier, but now he's gotten older and domesticated (with family and time commited) and doesn't go on trips anymore. If I'm going to camp out with the wife, the canoe has to be very stable.

Also take a look at some of Alex Comb's designs for BW use, Stewart River Canoe.

Dan

 

[MGC]

A couple comments.

1) It would seem that a canoe for Northern river tripping would be very different then on for use on the lakes in the BW/Q. While the most common length there is 17-18.5 ft, there are plenty of folks who use 16 ft'ers also, and they work find.

2) Being a large guy, for us the AT is a very tippy design,
Dan

You make several good points. I am not sure what would be appropriate in BC. Seems like our North East boats should be fine but perhaps someone else from out West can weigh in.
Consider the variety of water conditions the Allagash offers. First you are exposed to 40 miles of wide open Moosehead, then the NE Carry, then the Penobscott, more carries (Mud Pond, what a treat) then on the the St. J. That's a good test of a boat as far as I'm concerned. Big White's were the preferred canoe "in the day". The AT is a fine upgrade. I do agree they enjoy a load but I can't say I've ever noticed that they are at a disadvantage empty.

Personally I don't like small canoes. My IG's and Morris are 16's. These seem to be a good size for casual paddling and short trips. I can't imagine anything shorter for two folks and tripping. But, I know that there lot's of tubs out there
I do use my 20 foot White in the Adirondacks, that pretty stable and loads of fun to carry.

As far as tippy goes, my IG feels more tippy to me.. The AT is not. That said, my son and I only weigh in with 350 lbs.

I suppose that we should get back to Scott's question, what about that Morris on a big river or a couple week trip on the BW's?
I think it would be fine. I have used my Morris for numerous trips including lot's of paddles in Maine and in Dacks. We have tripped with it on the St. Lawrence and that's a pretty big river. That said, I don't think the Morris would be ideal. A Chestnut or a White (or AT) seem (to me) to be better suited for the loads and rough water that you can encounter. Anyway, there are no rules. I hear that you can even use (heaven forbid) canoes made from aluminum.

 

[Giiwedin]

Morris

If you load a 17' Morris w/ two weeks' gear and two adult male paddlers, you'll have - maybe - 3" freeboard. You can lumber along OK in the small lakes and creeks, but expose that canoe to beam winds on Lac la Croix, Basswood or Saganaga and you'll be shipping serious water. Sure you can make do in fine weather, but even then it will handle like a scow. It's simply not a tripping canoe (and never was designed for such).

I learned this lesson long ago, when I was young and attracted to fine lines. I paddled a 17' Otca from Ely, MN to Hudson's Bay - 1,200 miles and seven weeks on the trail. The Otca is a lovely boat and very fast, but under load it had had almost no reserve capacity in rapids and on large lakes. I learned from that experience, and since have taken deeper boats on all my trips. The one exception is the 18.5' White Guide which, despite being shallow (12") and having scant freeboard under heavy load, still seems to weather big water remarkably well.

One reason the Atkinson Traveler is so well suited to wilderness tripping is that its design is based on the White Guide, but with a little more depth amidships and fullness at the bow/stern. And, by the way, it's not all that tippy empty.

 

[Douglas Ingram]

I always find myself in a pickle when answering questions like this, how do I not come across as pushing my own work?

Oh well, I'll try anyway.

If you're going to build a w/c canoe, and you're going to build the mold for it too, its a bit like getting married. You want to choose well!

For what you describe, I think that the Morris is just too small. Its like asking a sports car to do the job of an SUV.

You really have to focus on what you need this canoe to do, under what conditions, and who is using it. Whatever you decide, the most important factor is always the crew.

The AT is a good canoe, but there are others.

For example, I know a couple who like to trip on northern rivers, but don't go out until the end of October! They need to be safe and warm, and they take a lot of gear with them. So, they needed a canoe with lots of capacity to haul that gear, but didn't want to sacrifice paddling ability. Their favorite canoe is a Kildonan "Timber Cruiser", 17'6" long, 39" flared side beam, 17" center depth.

For comparison purposes, the pictures show it (the big pale green canoe) alongside a 16' tandem and a 15' solo. Also one where its loaded to the gills.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

I would agree the Morris is not the ideal tripping design, for any kind of tripping.

But my main point was, I think you need to decide how you think you will use this canoe, and then look for a design suited for that use.

I'm not a river person so I can't offer much other then to ask how much white water do you think you'll be in, and that a canoe for ww will be different then a canoe for the BW/Q, ie rocker vs no rocker.

As for the BW/Q, how much do you plan to carry? We try to be "single trippers" (though 1 1/2 trips would be more acturate) and tend to limit the pack sizes to try to achieve it.

With that said, just about any canoe can be made to work in the BW, as routes with small lakes can be found.

And I suspect that even in these days of fancy synthetic canoes, the old standbys, the 17ft Grumman or Alumicraft are still the most common canoes used there, with 18-18.5 ft kevlar a close second.

The stripper I recently sold and it's replacement are both 18.5 ft, being a large guy, 350lbs, I like a large canoe, but the length isn't needed for packs, as usually all 3 packs are in the compartment just forward the yoke, in an attempt to get reasonable trim. It is nice in large waves though.

Dan

ps, what's an "IG"?

 

[Kathryn Klos]

IG= "Indian Girl" I believe...

 

[MGC]

Ig

IG= "Indian Girl" I believe...

Yes, sorry. Indian Girl....

 

[Scot T]

Thanks for the input, all of you. I had a look at a friends Morris and it's convincingly clear that it's the wrong boat for my stated use. I had thought maybe it was otherwise from reading Rollins description but I have seen the error of my ways.

By all means, push your work Douglas. You do it because you believe in it so why not state so? I'm inclined to think that your Kildonan might be a bit more boat than I need. Coming from a mountaineering background, I believe in packing light so more or less fit into Dan's camp of "single trippers", (At least, I try to most of the time). However, a couple others in your stable gave me some good ideas.

As far as the Yukon River trip is concerned, there is not much white water to contend with. Just a couple sections with rapids and only a few fairly large waves at that. Mainly deep water moving at 6-9 mph and the odd sand bar to zip around. And the BW/Q, it's the carries that are a concern for me and my rapidly aging and abused body.

One of my Greenwood Prospectors with a capacity of over 800lbs. would do just fine for either area so I'll give it some more thought and maybe figure out all I need to do to do with that design to lighten it up a bit ( a bunch!).

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Scot,

Not to be sacrilegious but, this is why kevlar is so popular.

For the past 7-8 years, we've used a stripper, 18.5 ft, 58 lbs.
Sold it and have another of a more stable design that needs to be trimmed out. It should come in around 54 lbs, if that turns out to be too heavy or a bad design, I'll likely get a kevlar of some design for BW camping.

I have a fleet of W/C, but they are restricted to day outings, they're just too heavy for me to portage.

Dan

"And the BW/Q, it's the carries that are a concern for me and my rapidly aging and abused body."