Canadian Canoe Company - 16' Hiawatha model

[CommittedToCanoes]

Hi. I am the new owner of a Canadian Canoe Company Hiawatha, a sixteen footer first purchased in 1959 (I have seen the original bill of sale). It's awaiting new canvas and minor repairs. In the meantime, if anyone has any thoughts about how this canoe will paddle and feel, I would be most grateful. Anyone had one, seen one, paddled one? Thanks so much.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

The Canadian Hiawatha was a 16 fter as you said....model 44-A Hiawatha 16 x 34 x 12 with outside stems according to Dragonfly Canoe Works Wood Canoe ID site, http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/canadian-canoe-company/.

As the website notes regarding history of Chestnut Canoe Co., http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/chestnut-canoe-company/:

Chestnut Canoe Company and Peterborough Canoe Company merged under the holding company Canadian Watercraft Limited. Canadian Canoe Company joined them in 1927. All three companies continued to maintain there own identity after the merger, and marketed nearly identical lines of canvas canoes. It is often said that Chestnut was responsible for the canvas canoe production for all three companies. While canoes built in one factory were often given a decal for one of the others, for the most part, evidence indicates that each company was responsible for the production of most of its own canoes. Models that are otherwise the same in the catalogs show subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) differences in hull shape, rib patterns, sheer lines, tumblehome, and the shaping of trim parts.

Since Canadian Canoe Co.was bought out by Peterborough Canoe Co. in 1920s, and became part of holding company Canadian Watercraft Ltd., along with Peterborough and Chestnut companies, and the dimensions are not that different from Chestnut Pal, 16 x 34 x 12, (if Hiawatha model not directly built by Chestnut under merger then definitely could be shared design), I would assume that the handling of your canoe should be very similar to Pal. The Pal is a great canoe for solo or tandem use....often used in canoe films by Bill Mason....the Pal is described by Mike Elliot of Kettle River Canoes in his blog, http://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/201...nvas-canoes-from-the-chestnut-canoe-company/:

The Chestnut Pal – It is no accident that this canoe was the one that Bill Mason turned to for use in most of his films. It was stable, yet quick; steady, yet agile. At 16’ long with a 36” beam, 12¾” depth at the centre, weight of 72 pounds and a carrying capacity of 700 pounds, the Pal was as close to being a perfect recreational canoe as you ever hope to get. It was the 16’ model of the Chestnut pleasure canoes which also came in 14’ and 15’ lengths. Until 1953, the 16’ pleasure canoe had a 34” beam. Then in 1954, the mould was widened and the Pal was born. Over the years the Pal was produced, the ribs came in two different sizes – either 1½” wide and 3/8” thick with 1½” spaces between ribs or 2-3/8” wide and 3/8” thick with 2” spaces.

The bottom was a shallow-arch hull with tumblehome extending through the entire length of the canoe. The fine entry lines and moderate rocker make it very easy to paddle. In his film, “Path of the Paddle: Solo Whitewater”, Bill Mason demonstrated very well that the Pal was not designed for Class 3 rapids. But, that didn’t stop Bill from trying. The Pal was a great general-purpose canoe and was the canoe of choice for many generations of canoeists – even if many of them called it a Chestnut Prospector.

For more on Pal's dimensions see 'Dimensions for a Chestnut Pal Wood-Canvas Canoe', http://canoeguybc.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/dimensions-for-a-chestnut-pal-wood-canvas-canoe/.

Hope that helps.

Who is doing the restoration of your canoe???? It would be great to see photos too.

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

Thanks for the info! Much appreciated. I don't know who will be doing the restoration. Do you have any suggestions (I'm in Toronto)? I will try to post the "before" picture this weekend. And tonight I plan to measure the ribs and post the results.

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Several canoe builders listed on WCHA Directory (go to Ontario)....also see Wooden Canoe Builders Guild, http://www.wcbguild.com/. My wood canvas canoe was built by Bruce Smith, http://www.brucesmithpaddles.com, e-mail: bd.smith04@gmail.com, phone: (519) 826-9696 just north of Kitchener....he does restoration and is member of Guild (pardon my bias....Bruce is a friend....and great paddle maker too))....just finishing restoration on Peterborough Minetta....but there is also Pam Wedd (WCHA member and Guild member) near Parry Sound (Bearwood Canoes, http://www.bearwoodcanoes.com, email: bearwood@vianet.on.ca, fax: (705) 732-1680/ phone: (705) 732-1273); Roger Foster, Carlisle Canoes, (http://www.carlislecanoe.ca, e-mail: roger@carlislecanoe.ca, phone905) 659-0883/ Fax: (905) 659-0883), also Guild member and on WCHA Directory; Dale and Lynn Case of BenTTree Canoes in Haliburton, e-mail:benttree.canoe@sympatico.ca, phone: (705) 489-1771 (Guild member); Doug Long of Longwood Canoes, (613) 989-2856, e-mail: longwud@magma.ca (Guild); Dave Alguire of Old Delta Canoeworks, 613 928-2850, e-mail: dalguire@xplornet.com, web:www.olddeltacanoeworks.com (Guild); Dick Persson of Buckhorn Canoe, phone: 705-657-2601, website: www.buckhorncanoes.com, email: boat@buckhorncanoes.com (WCHA); Gary Hedderson of Madawaska Valley Canoes in Barry's Bay, ON, phone: 613-756-9502, email: mvcanoes@sympatico.ca (WCHA); Roy Allman of Huntsville, phone: 705-789-4005, website: http://surf.to/canoe (WCHA)....another good one is Will Ruch, http://ruchcanoes.com/, near Bancroft....

How much work is required???? You state minor repairs....and new canvas....depending on builder, you're looking at about $1600 for recanvas and refinishing (new varnish), possibly very minor woodwork....if requires more work ie., replacing ribs, planking, or stems then cost could be more....

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Several canoe builders listed on WCHA Directory (go to Ontario)....also see Wooden Canoe Builders Guild, http://www.wcbguild.com/. My wood canvas canoe was built by Bruce Smith, http://www.brucesmithpaddles.com, e-mail: bd.smith04@gmail.com, phone: (519) 826-9696 just north of Kitchener....he does restoration and is member of Guild (pardon my bias....Bruce is a friend....and great paddle maker too))....just finishing restoration on Peterborough Minetta....but there is also Pam Wedd (WCHA member and Guild member) near Parry Sound (Bearwood Canoes, http://www.bearwoodcanoes.com, email: bearwood@vianet.on.ca, fax: (705) 732-1680/ phone: (705) 732-1273); Roger Foster, Carlisle Canoes, (http://www.carlislecanoe.ca, e-mail: roger@carlislecanoe.ca, phone: (905) 659-0883/ Fax: (905) 659-0883), also Guild member and on WCHA Directory; Dale and Lynn Case of BenTTree Canoes in Haliburton, e-mail:benttree.canoe@sympatico.ca, phone: (705) 489-1771 (Guild member); Doug Long of Longwood Canoes, (613) 989-2856, e-mail: longwud@magma.ca (Guild); Dave Alguire of Old Delta Canoeworks, 613 928-2850, e-mail: dalguire@xplornet.com, web:www.olddeltacanoeworks.com (Guild); Dick Persson of Buckhorn Canoe, phone: 705-657-2601, website: www.buckhorncanoes.com, email: boat@buckhorncanoes.com (WCHA); Gary Hedderson of Madawaska Valley Canoes in Barry's Bay, ON, phone: 613-756-9502, email: mvcanoes@sympatico.ca (WCHA); Roy Allman of Huntsville, phone: 705-789-4005, website: http://surf.to/canoe (WCHA)....another good one is Will Ruch, http://ruchcanoes.com/, near Bancroft....

How much work is required???? You state minor repairs....and new canvas....depending on builder, you're looking at about $1600 for recanvas and refinishing (new varnish), possibly very minor woodwork....if requires more work ie., replacing ribs, planking, or stems then cost could be more....

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

How much work? I need a pro to have a good look to be sure. But I'm hoping that it's limited. The planks look fine, the ribs too. One gunwhale looks iffy, both decks need refinishing (at least). But over all... the wood looks good.

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

and here's an odd issue..

She doesn't balance well on my shoulders. I have portaged a number of canoes over the years ... and on this one, I immediately felt the bow is too heavy. My first thought was that the thwart feels like it is in the wrong place, that it needs to be about ten inches farther forward. Does make sense? Anything anyone has heard of before? Just asking ...

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Photos would help in many of the questions you have....especially position of thwart....
Regarding work....any of names I posted in earlier post are real pros....very good work....whoever you decide on, you'd have to arrange to get canoe seen by to get a proper estimate....but also be prepared for added cost as sometimes can't tell how much work is involved until canvas is off and work started....it will be a nice canoe to paddle....and one that can be passed down to future generations....

 

[Rob Stevens]

She doesn't balance well on my shoulders. I have portaged a number of canoes over the years ... and on this one, I immediately felt the bow is too heavy. My first thought was that the thwart feels like it is in the wrong place, that it needs to be about ten inches farther forward. Does make sense? Anything anyone has heard of before? Just asking ...

Yes, middle thwarts are sometimes not located at the balance point. Two ways to check are measure from each end. To find the balance point, put a broomstick cut to inside width under the thwart and have to people (one on each side of the canoe) lift and adjust the position of the broomstick until the canoe balances. Mark that spot (pencil, masking tape, etc.)

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

Good advice. Very practical (it sounds like you have done this). Forgive my ignorance ... but is it a big deal to then move the thwart? Is there a risk of wrecking the canoe ... distorting the shape ... or ...?

 

[Rob Stevens]

Good advice. Very practical (it sounds like you have done this). Forgive my ignorance ... but is it a big deal to then move the thwart? Is there a risk of wrecking the canoe ... distorting the shape ... or ...?

It means more holes in the inwales, which should be avoided if possible as it weakens them. While repositioning it, put a spacer in there to hold the shape.

If the canoe isn't too heavy, you can carry it on one shoulder rather than overhead with the thwart behind your head, so you wouldn't necessarily have to move the thwart.

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

Pictures ... the shoe and brace for the mast have been removed since these were taken

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Seems to be in reasonable shape....obviously needs new canvas....you said earlier that one gunwale is 'iffy' and decks need refinishing....you mentioned on another forum that your budget wasn't unlimited (not that it needs to be)....and that you were limited in restoring it yourself due to work space and experience....as was suggested on that other forum, a course by a reputable builder in restoration, especially one that allows you to work on your own canoe is a great choice....it will save you money....give you instruction from a great builder....plus you've done the work mostly yourself....courses like what Pam Wedd of Bearwood Canoes provides in Restoring Your Classic Canoe:

In this course, participants will be able to work on their own canoes, or cooperatively help each other as all the steps to restoration are taught. Canoes must be brought to the shop prior to the course for evaluation.

Course Dates for 2011
Restoration/Repair courses: Course cost, shop time, use of tools and instruction is $595 Cdn until April 30, $625 Cdn effective May 1. Materials are extra.
March 1 to 9
July 21 to 29
November 12 to 20

There are other such programs available....check with the builders on WCHA Builders Directory or in Wooden Canoe Builders Guild....

Regarding concern over thwart and balance point....Rob Stevens gave great advice....if I was to add anything to what Rob said, it would be to leave thwart as is for now....have the builder (or whoever is doing restoration) check out....from photo thwart seems in usual location....not too far off centre point....

Overall, great looking canoe for first such project....thanks for posting photos....keep us posted on what you decide....and progress....

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

Thanks so much for the help. I am impressed with the quality of advice ... and the generosity of those who give it.
I will post progress.. as it happens.
And one extra thought. This canoe came with an old Canadian Canoe Company paddle (split, but probably fixable). Any thoughts about where to find another? The design is wonderful.

 

[Paul Waqué]

Removing the later maststep and collar might solve the balance issue.

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

I was hoping removing the mast supports would fix the issue. It helps a bit ... but the bow still wants to touch the ground. And since I have to get his beauty on and off a minivan ... this is a problem.

 

[pklonowski]

Try tying a one or two pound pack (camera bag? water bottle?) to the stern seat, and see how much it counterbalances... adjust to suit?

Just guessing...

 

[WoodNCanvas]

Thanks so much for the help. I am impressed with the quality of advice ... and the generosity of those who give it.
I will post progress.. as it happens.
And one extra thought. This canoe came with an old Canadian Canoe Company paddle (split, but probably fixable). Any thoughts about where to find another? The design is wonderful.

Canadian Canoe Co. paddles (with logo) might be found in antique shops or even flea markets....you could post a "Wanted" ad on Kijiji....

Look forward to progress reports....

 

[Paul Waqué]

A bag of throw rope clipped as far back as possible is good safety equipment and will help to balance the boat.

 

[CommittedToCanoes]

Hmmm ... I will experiment with my safety kit. On the water, I am never without it. And that's a good thing .. for several reasons. I was "pulled over" while paddling a few weeks ago (in Ontario)... the police (OPP) were doing a spot check for safety gear. Of course I had the full kit. The officers were very pleasant, admired my strokes .. and told me I had just managed to avoid a $240 fine!