Old Town?

vtwoodworker

Enthusiastic about Wooden Canoes
Picked this up locally. Was told it was an old.town. serial on keel reads 17 13792. Any help appreciated!
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The Old Town canoe with serial number 13792 is 17 feet long, AA (top) grade, a Charles River model planked with Maine white cedar, with open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, thwarts and seats and equipped with a keel and half ribs. It was built between February and April 1910. The exterior was originally painted dark green. It was shipped on April 19, 1910 to Island Pond, Vermont. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link behind the thumbnail image attached below.

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This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Greg
 
The Old Town canoe with serial number 13792 is 17 feet long, AA (top) grade, a Charles River model planked with Maine white cedar, with open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks, thwarts and seats and equipped with a keel and half ribs. It was built between February and April 1910. The exterior was originally painted dark green. It was shipped on April 19, 1910 to Island Pond, Vermont. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link behind the thumbnail image attached below.

View attachment 40646

This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Greg
Thanks!!! That matches the boat, and the history of it starting out its life in Island pond that was told to me by the previous owner. Lookingnforward to this project, this boat is besutiful!
 
Ok everyone...I"m finalyl thinking of starting the restoration on this boat, but one of my hesitations is I want it to be a user and I'm just not sure how the Charles river is going to perform. I'm looking for a tripping/camping boat to mostly take on small lakes ponds and rivers to do family camping and tripping...nothing too intense. I"ve always had it in my head I wanted a chesnut prospector, but this fell into my lap a few years ago. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
From the one picture the canoe looks to be excellent shape! You even have the outer rails - hopefully they're in good enough condition to use. It could well be a gorgeous boat when restored. A 16' canoe is more typical for small water, but 17' could be perfect if you want to use it for camping & family use. The only caveat is that early canoes tend to be a little 'tender', meaning that the can be a bit tippy. But many people love them for this trait as they can be more maneuverable for a well versed paddler.
 
From the one picture the canoe looks to be excellent shape! You even have the outer rails - hopefully they're in good enough condition to use. It could well be a gorgeous boat when restored. A 16' canoe is more typical for small water, but 17' could be perfect if you want to use it for camping & family use. The only caveat is that early canoes tend to be a little 'tender', meaning that the can be a bit tippy. But many people love them for this trait as they can be more maneuverable for a well versed paddler.
Thanks Howie. It needs more work than it appears. Several cracked ribs, an entire interior stem is split into 8+ pieces and some planking. A couple spots need some scarphed in pieces in the whales, but its not horrible. I have several other boats available, but I'm a wooden boat guy at heart, so I really want to be paddling a cedar canvas boat every time I go out.
 
I just acquired this canoe from vtwoodworker and am excited to start the restoration of it. It appears to be largely original. It will need some cracked ribs repaired which I hope to do from the back side as the inside of the hull still has the original finish and great patina! Some planking needs to be straightened out and re-tacked or possibly replaced. I’ll keep everyone posted on progress.
 
Congratulations, I'm curious about the comment indicating that "an entire interior stem is split into 8+ pieces." Can you provide any pictures? Thanks,

Benson
 
Hi Benson,

I’m not sure if it’s broken or just badly warped. I was thinking of possibly splicing in a replacement for the top half rather than replacing the entire stem in order to preserve the visible part of the stem and serial #. Any thoughts on this approach are welcome.
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Greg,
That stem is bad enough to consider its replacement, at least to the flat . If the flat is not sound you could certainly replace the whole stem and take the original numbers off in a one eight inch thick or less piece and put it into a slot/notch on the new stem flat just where it should be. If you replace only the curve with a good section of the old flat, just steam and bend a new curve and get it on the remaining flat using a long scarf or even a well made deep bird beak that will be stronger than the original. Have fun.
Dave
 
Dave,
Thanks so much for the guidance. I’ll try to leave the flat as it seems fine (at least from what I can see).

On the stem is the end grain oriented outboard or up and down?
 
Also another question….the iron bolts for the seats and thwarts were originally countersunk and covered with plugs but they are all rusted and I had to cut them out. Are you guys putting these back to original countersunk and plugged when you restore the older boats or is it generally acceptable to use surface mounted bronze carriage bolts as a replacement? It seems to me that accessible bolts would be better for regular tightening etc. but it wouldn’t be “correct”.
 
The answer to a question like this usually starts with "It's your canoe..." so pick the option that you prefer. Things like this are often what distinguish a repair from a restoration. I prefer canoes that are restored to look like they did when they left the factory but others have different preferences. Let us know what you decide,

Benson
 
Greg,

If you plug the carriage bolts "glue" them in with just varnish and cover with subsequent coats of varnish. This makes them easier to remove if need be.

Fitz
 
Greg,
I have an 08 Ideal and it had mahogany plugs and outwales. Yes , it is your boat, but. Your 1910 is not that common and a Charles River to boot and a 17 foota. So preservation would suggest it advisable to replace with the same. I went with plugs and it is a very nice, clean look with a careful varnish job. A plug bit ( if that is what they are called ) makes the it real easy to get them perfect. I too used varnish for the " glue ". I did not have to replace the bolts, but I know your pain with the rusted dudes. If you need to remove bad wood around them just epoxy in a hardwood dowel and redrill for the new bolts. And I have never had to tighten bolts, but if I had to I would just get out the wrench and tighten from below. And yes, I always reuse original steel square nuts to stay correct. Exposed bolt heads are not that pretty and hence the Old Town diamond head and earlier, their bolt with ears to stop rotation under the cap cover when the nut underneath would not turn in either direction. If you do use a slotted bolt and plug it and are concerned that in will freeze in 50 years just get a brass nail, clip the head and drive it in beside the slot in the outwale down grain at an angle and tap it into the slot to stop the rotation. Maybe TMI here. Have fun. ( I don't understand your ? about the stem grain orientation. )
Dave
 
Dave,
Definitely not TMI. That’s exactly the information I was looking for. I will look to put it back to original as you suggested as it deserves the best I can give it.

You mention the rarity of this canoe. Do you guys have any notion of how rare it is?
Greg
 
Do you guys have any notion of how rare it is?

It is reasonably rare though not unique. If we assume that Old Town started with serial number one in 1900 then this canoe is the 13972nd one made and during their first decade. Their millionth serial number was issued in 2003. The estimates at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/models.html indicate that it is the sixth most popular model with about 9435 made between 1905 and 1929 or around 377 per year. The chart at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/grades.jpg indicates that about 23% of the graded canoes were AA like this one. This one seems rare to me.

Benson
 
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