Old Town on EBay

[Kathryn Klos]

Thought I'd share with the gang, the build record that goes with a canoe currently on eBay. The seller presents it as a 1907 AA grade HW, and it's actually a 1958 CS grade Otca. The serial number is 165995 18, and I believe the confusion stems from the fact that the seller sent Old Town a request for the record for 16 5995.

The scan of this record is attached below, along with an image of the canoe that matches it. This scan and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details.

I'm always very tactful when contacting eBay sellers about things such as this... but I believe a boat should have the correct record, and most sellers appreciate a heads-up.

Kathy

 

[Kathryn Klos]

It kinda irked me that the seller of this canoe has ignored all who have emailed him regarding his error in presenting his canoe as an AA grade 1907 HW instead of the CS grade 1958 Otca that it actually is.

I figured the seller would wait until the listing expired and then relist the canoe correctly. Nope. It's baaaaack.... and for another 28 days. I offered fifty bucks for the canoe, but it was declined. Now I regret having done that, because the seller may think I am actually interested... I only wanted to offer an opinion as to its value.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Kathy -- I guess you are one of the six rejected offers -- others must also think it is not as represented. I asked the seller to post a photo of the serial number, so a potential buyer could decide for himself. He did not respond to my earlier inquiry, so I don't have high expectations of seeing a photo.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Just got a reply -- says he will be able to take a picture of the serial number(s) next week and will post them -- so we will see. Does look like a nice enough boat (if you don't mind f/g), although the asking price does seem high, no matter what the age.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

FEATURE # 1: 219" LONG X 37" WIDE MODEL: H W
FEATURE #1: ALL WOOD CONSTRUCTION YEAR BUILT: 1907
SERIAL #: 16 5995 18

The stuff above is copied and pasted from the canoe listing. Note how he states the serial number... which is obviously 165995 18, as the canoe is an 18 footer. In the body of the ad, he presents the serial number as: Low Serial # 16 5995 or L6 5995... and this is obviously what he said to Old Town... and Old Town gave him the build record for a 16 footer, s/n 5995, which is an AA grade HW.

Old Town can be given a set of numbers, and if it matches a build record, that's what you get. If the record is for a 16 footer and the boat is 18 feet, further investigation is indicated by the boat owner.

I hope the seller follows through with more pictures. It does appear to be in good shape, except for the probability of fiberglass.

Kathy

 

[Greg Nolan]

I received a message this afternoon from the ebay seller saying that he will also be attaching a photo of the OT build record that he has. I said that I thought that would be a good idea. So again, we will see.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Caveat Emptor

I'm guessing that the attached build record is the one the seller will post, because he failed to send Old Town the complete serial number.

The 1907 canoe which the seller believes this to be is a 16 foot a AA grade HW with mahogany trim and CLOSED gunwales. The canoe he is selling is fifty years newer, an 18 foot short-decked Otca with CS grade trim and open gunwales.

BUT Old Town sent him a build record, and it seems he plans to stick by that and ignore what others have suggested.

Kathy

 

[Greg Nolan]

Consumer protection

The ebay seller has revised his add -- lowering his price, correcting the date from 1907 to 1958, and showing photos of the serial number and of the correct build record -- the build record Kathy posted above.

 

[Kathryn Klos]

A Step in the Right Direction...

It's great that the canoe is now connected to the correct build record. The guy could have gone back and corrected his text re the "mahogany" decks, thwarts and seats-- but that won't matter to anyone who recognizes wood species or who knows "CS grade" doesn't involve mahogany.

For those new to this forum, the "convention" regarding the age of a canoe is that the canoe's ship-date is its birthdate... not the date they began finishing the hull... so this canoe is a '58.

Also, for those new here, an "all wood" canoe (seller refers to it this way) is one constructed from the get-go as an all-wood canoe, not a wood/canvas with the canvas removed. Definition for the All-wood Forum is "Canoes and Kayaks build from wood without any waterproof covering - and all-wood construction technique".

It would be interesting to know how many people wrote this seller, telling him he had the wrong information.

Kathy

 

[Benson Gray]

It's back on eBay again at http://www.ebay.com/itm/251248884608 with the correct serial number and described as "built by D K Green" this time.

Benson

 

[Kathryn Klos]

The cousin of D K Red...

 

[Treewater]

Good Shape?

Interesting listing. Look close. Several ribs have been repaired by adding wood on top of the breaks. Both decks have been repaired by cutting the tip and putting in a solid piece. Yes, it appears to have been fiberglassed over the wood instead of canvas. He must have tore the canvas trying to put it on and decided fiberglass was simpler.

 

[Benson Gray]

The cousin of D K Red...

They must have been a very productive family because the chart at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/colors.jpg indicates that about half of the build records have similar notations.

Benson