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Morris thwart/seat bolts & nuts

Discussion in 'Wood and Canvas' started by Zenith, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. Zenith

    Zenith Curious about wooden canoes

    My 1908 Morris was missing the center thwart, so I built a new one. It does not have the nuts that go on the bolts. The bolts on this Morris are made out of threaded rod bent over at the top at about 1/2 ". Some of the bolts have square iron nuts, bur no washers. The threads on my Old Town are 12NC 24 which is too large for the Morris bolts and the next modern size smaller 10NC24 is too small for the Morris bolts. No stores around seem to carry a middle size, which would seem to be 9NC24. I tried to re thread one of the Morris bolts with 10NC24 but it just messed up the area on the end, so I stopped. So, the question is, what size threads were used on the Morris seat and thwart bolts, and are nuts that fit available. I suspect square iron ones are not available. I have used a couple of Old Town diamond bolts after cutting the top part of the bolt off, bending the top, and using 12NC24 nuts, and if nuts are no longer available I will do that again, but I am just interested in any input on this issue. Thank You, John MacIver
     
  2. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Did you try 10-32 nuts?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Zenith

    Zenith Curious about wooden canoes

    Dan, Thank you for your reply. I have a SAE thread gage and size 32 is much too small. The 24 size fits perfect. The first number is the sticking point.Thanks Again, John MacIver
     
  4. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    If you have a micrometer or caliper, you can determine the size of the bolt stock. If it is indeed No. 9, then you can get taps for 9-24, but you aren't likely to find nuts. In that case, you can machine some out of bar stock.
     
  5. Howie

    Howie Wooden Canoe Maniac

    You might want to avoid using steel for nuts, washers, or bolts as they will rust. For my Morris I used a 3/16" stainless rod. It wasn't to tough to get the stainless to bend into the L shape using a hammer and vice, and it took a 10-24 thread well. If you cut the length properly and use silicon-bronze nuts & washers no one will notice the difference in bolt material, and it's actually an improvement.
     
    JClearwater likes this.
  6. OP
    OP
    Zenith

    Zenith Curious about wooden canoes

    Dan and Howie, Thank you for the input, they are both good information points. I may just use the Old Town diamond bolts like I have before. They are long enough so that I can cut what I need off the bottom of the bolt still leaving the rest of the bolt usable for thwarts on an Old Town. I can then use a 12 -24 nut that fits on the Old Town bolts. Even though the part I will be bending is in a threaded area, I have found the material bends easily without breaking at the threads. Of course this is slightly larger then the original Morris bolts, but they are covered by the cap piece. Thanks again for the input, John MacIver
     
  7. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Gee, diamond head bolts are kinda expensive to use for a bolt that is going to be hidden under a cap rail….assuming this canoe is a closed gunwale canoe.
    If that were the case in my shop, I would get a couple of 10-24 brass flat head screws long enough to accept the thwart and inwale and call it a day.
     
    Dave Wermuth, MGC and JClearwater like this.
  8. David Satter

    David Satter LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Zenith, I'm not sure of size. But if you just need a couple of Morris bolts and nuts I could probably find a couple in my boxes of parts. Dave . Yes those 3/8 steel nuts Morris used are different.
     
  9. jchu

    jchu LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Those Morris Threads and nuts are something different. I had to run a die across mine to get anything to thread. The steel bolts, some were just in bad shape. My center thwart was missing but it still had brass wing nuts in place. If you want all my nuts I will send them.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Zenith

    Zenith Curious about wooden canoes

    Dave, Thanks for the reply. I just happen to have two diamond head bolts that I think are 5" long that are left over from my 1923 Old Town job. I found that there is enough bolt there that I can cut off what I need for the Morris and still have enough diamond head bolt left for another job. I have checked the local hardwares in the area and two inches is there maximum length, and I need 2 1/2" for a Morris bolt. Also thanks for the offer, Let me see what I can do first.... jchu, Thanks for the reply. I tried to run a die on one of the Morris bolts and it just tore up the end. I still have enough bolt left though. My Morris was missing the middle thwart as well, but the two steel wing nuts were there. Since your Morris was also missing the center thwart, I wonder if they put in the bolt and wing nuts, but only added a middle thwart if you paid extra for it. Speculation.... The steel nuts were rusted but some of them were still usable, and since I like to try to keep it original I oiled them up and put them back. I did however add copper washers. Thank you for the offer on the nuts, let me see what I end up with...Thanks again, I'll let you know how it turns out..John MacIver
     
  11. 1905Gerrish

    1905Gerrish LOVES Wooden Canoes

    I purchased brass rod years ago and made my own factory style bolts as I needed to. Been a long time since I worked on a Morris but made a bunch as we brought a handful back to life. Can't remember the size but if you have a die and handle you have many options. My old Morris did have wing nuts for the center thwart.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Zenith

    Zenith Curious about wooden canoes

    Gerrish, Thanks for the reply. I do have a number of options. It is just not like taking a quick trip to the hardware store....Interesting about the wing nuts, i sounds like maybe they all had them on the middle thwart. Thanks again, John MacIver.
     
  13. Dan Miller

    Dan Miller cranky canoeist Staff Member

    Many builders advertised the middle thwart as being removable. You know, for canoedling and such... ;)
     

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