1947 Old Town 16' C&S grade HW canoe

[frank_a]

I started a thread in the Guest Book about my badly cared for 1947 Old Town HW model canoe. Part of the blame for its condition is solely mine. For years, decades even, I had stored this canoe is ways it would not rot, but I slipped up a few years ago when we moved into our new place and there was really no good place to put the canoe. At the time, even putting it on sawhorses outside would have done the trick. Bah!

Things are changing. I added a stall (about 10 X 16) to my small pole barn over the last couple years, and the canoe can sit in that space diagonally and not get wet. I started pulling it apart, but wanted to get it in a cradle as soon as impossible. Along with a bunch of other stuff I did in the 90+ hear here today, at least that is done. Pics attached.

I may be able to get some bracing done tomorrow. I have another major boat project on tap tonight and tomorrow, at least in the morning, so we'll see how it goes. In the meantime, here's a link to my initial posts in the Guest Book: http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?9656-Frank-south-of-Albany-NY

More to come!

Frank

 

[frank_a]

So working between my new cradles and old newly-stabilized sawhorses, I removed both bands, removed pieces of the mostly disintegrated keel and both outwales. Going was tough because this canoe had been fiberglassed 40 years ago. All the screw slots were full of resin and there were staples holding the 'glass on. One outwale broke in the middle at an existing split when it came off, and the other is not in very good shape. A number of my ribs are bad where they meet the gunnel. All the fiberglass is now off, except for one side that will get done later. Dinner called and then the mosquitoes came out. Took a couple of planks off too. Saved all the hardware I could, and all of the keel screws & little cupped washers. Lot of work here, but I'm taking it one step at a time and am not in a rush.

Can anyone tell me what end is the bow? Would it be the end with the thwart close (couple feet maybe) or far away (like maybe 4')? Both ends have the hull # in the stem.

Thanks for all the help and advice folks. I sure do appreciate it!

Frank
South of Albany NY

 

[Benson Gray]

Can anyone tell me what end is the bow? Would it be the end with the thwart close (couple feet maybe) or far away (like maybe 4')?

The canoe should be symmetrical on each end so the bow and stern designations are arbitrary. My guess is that the end with the thwart close is the stern and far away is the bow so there would be room to lean against these thwarts when kneeling. Good luck with the rest of the restoration,

Benson

 

[Dave Wermuth]

A heat gun is usefull for resin removal and also warming stubborn screws. Cup washers are like gold. Rib tops are easy to splice once you work out how it's done. A multi tool saw is real helpful for cutting the splices. Angle grinders do it well too. The worst part is a. 'glass removal. and b. varnish stripping.

 

[frank_a]

I don't have a multi-tool saw Dave, but as an old welder, have a couple good angle grinders. Now all I need is some advice on how folks splice in rib tops! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Frank

 

[Benson Gray]

Now all I need is some advice on how folks splice in rib tops! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The pictures at http://www.wcha.org/Beeby-canoe/A0002_1929_Old_Town_18_Canoe_96/album.html include some showing rib top splices. Good luck,

Benson

 

[frank_a]

Boy, great pics, and thanks so much for the link Benson! Tell me, what sort of saw would work best for making scarf joints in place like that?

By the way, got the last of the fiberglass and steel staples holding it on under the outwales off before work this morning. Next is a good interior wash, then start removing damaged planks, and other planks necessary for rib top work.

Frank
South of Albany NY

 

[Andre Cloutier]

How about a picture of the shiny trihull on the trailer, is it a 60s Johnson?

 

[frank_a]

Nope, it's a '62 Power Cat 14T, actually a trimaran tunnel hull, with a '63 Merc 1000 on it, second year 100hp was available as an outboard from anybody. Took two of them to make one good working motor. Right now (along with working on my '47 Old Town), I have two '70 Merc 1350's (135 hp) that I am combining into (hopefully) one good working motor to replace the 100hp one on it now. Crank and pistons should be back in the powerhead before the weekend is over, then I have 3 carbs, 2 fuel pumps, a water pump and lower unit to rebuild. Should make my little 14' 300# boat scoot. Also, I have adapted both power trim & tilt and hydraulic steering to it. Neither were available in '62/'63.

You can see the tunnels in the stern pic.

Frank

 

[frank_a]

Okay, here's where I'm at. I washed the interior last night with a big stiff brush and Murphy's wood soap. Still pulling a few staples as well as working on getting some planks out of the way for rib scarfing, and general plank replacement. Got a couple questions.

First - I can't find eastern white cedar around here anywhere except growing trees (I have a bunch on my property). Looks like about all that is available is western red cedar in bundles for siding ($130 for 10 of them 12' long), and 1 X dimensional stuff nominally 6" wide up to 12' long. Guess I could use either of them for planks and ribs?

Second - I have planks that look like they're pulling apart from the nails. See pics below. I need to replace those don't I?

A couple of the pics here show two cracked ribs inside and the cracks on the planks outside. This is from the ice storm of '98 up on the Canadian border in NY when a big tree came down through our garage roof and hit the canoe. I had built a storage rack for it up high enough so I could get under it without hitting my head. Really, the canoe didn't get too damaged. That gives you an idea of how long I've been carting this thing around too! We've moved three times since then.

Thanks again for all the help folks.

Frank
South of Albany NY

 

[frank_a]

Stripped the top planks off one side tonight ("B" side) to get at the tops of the ribs. I think a lot of the tops need to have new material scarfed in. I have a good friend coming over maybe Sunday to help me with an inventory. He's done two of these kind of canoes, in much worse beginning condition. I'm labeling the ribs and planks as they come off.

Frank

 

[frank_a]

First stem uncovered enough to determine scarf position. I think...

Also pictured is a shot of the hardware I've "rescued" and the little nail puller I have been using with fair success.

Frank

 

[frank_a]

Checked out Home Depot cedar stuff, all red cedar. Dimensional is full of knots, siding is clear. Easy choice. They have bundles of 10 pieces I think 6" wide in both 6' and 12' lengths. I will probably get the 12' for length flexibility. Ordered a real good thin kerf blade for my old Delta table saw today, as well as a low angle Stanley plane.

I'm concerned with what sort of material to build both the outwale and inwale from, as well as stem scarfs and keel. One outwale is complete, while the other split about 3/4 down. Maybe I could scarf a piece in, but what kind of wood is it, or what could I use? The inwales don't look to be in very good shape either, and in many places the ribs have pulled away from them.

Any suggestions and /or thoughts would be more than welcome.

Thanks,

Frank

 

[Greg Nolan]

"I'm concerned with what sort of material to build both the outwale and inwale from, as well as stem scarfs and keel. One outwale is complete, while the other split about 3/4 down. Maybe I could scarf a piece in, but what kind of wood is it, or what could I use? "

The build record says your gunwales are spruce, which is what OT usually used for a CS grade canoe:

 

[frank_a]

The build record also says the planks are spruce, but they're cedar! I could maybe believe the gunwales are spruce. Wonder where to find that?!?

Thanks!

Frank

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Those old 'Tower of Power' inline sixes are kool motors, last one i had was a brown band 115 w/ T&T. Plus they look the best on old Jcrafts, Checkmates and Sidewinders. That should really push that boat around for sure. For lengths of spruce in reasonably clear stock, look to the rafter lumber in long lengths, often you can get a fair amount of clear. My best find was a 2x10x20' board with 4" clear the entire length, cost me $40. Not exactly old growth, but it will do just fine for your project.

 

[frank_a]

Thanks Andre. Yes, the old tower or power motors are very cool. I'm replacing this 1st generation one with a 4th generation one. My 100hp pushes the boat to 45, speculation is the 135hp will push me up over 50. 50 is the magical spot for lift in these old tunnel hulls. One must be very careful. Trim & tilt is pretty much required. I put the hydraulic steering system on last year in advance of this hp upgrade. Hydraulic steering is a wonderful thing.

Rafter lumber huh? I'll look around see what I can find around here.

Frank

 

[Andre Cloutier]

50 is the magical spot for lift in these old tunnel hulls.


not much danger of a blow over, but it would be a wild ride in such a short boat. there is a restored one in Muskoka i saw, pretty neat set up.

http://www.cottageblog.ca/2008/08/11/interesting-boats-spotted-on-the-muskoka-lakes/

the link to the power cat site is great too. liked the old shot of them jumping one, what was it with everyone in the 60s jumping boats off ramps?

 

[frank_a]

Articles I have read about lift in these kind of boats say you get about 10% at 50 or so, and then it increases exponentially. Just got the crank and pistons seated in the head of my "new" outboard. It competes with a number of other projects. As a pleasure boat, these old Power Cats ride incredibly smooth, especially in a chop, but mine doesn't do good with wakes from lots of big power boats. I'm having a good time working on this old canoe though. It was really very well built. More done tonight, pics soon!

Frank

 

[frank_a]

This is where I got last night and this morning. I think I got far enough for my friend who is stopping by tomorrow to assess where I am and where I need to go, though I may need to remove more planks near the stems to repair or replace them. So I'm done for now. Should have my thin kerf table saw blade and low angle plane in early this week, and need to buy some belts for my sanders and look at wood glues/epoxies and see what's out there nowadays. Years ago I used to use Weldwood for dowel joinery. Also gonna look for spruce rafter lumber.

Got my crank and pistons in the powerhead for my "new" motor for the Power Cat last night (that's a job and a half!), now have carbs to rebuild, but have company and can't spend the day in my shop.

Thanks again for all the help folks!