16 foot Old Town sponson boat

[oldhaven]

I have a CS grade Old town sponson boat 157205. I have the build record that indicates it was shipped in May 1952 to the Ida Casson Calloway Foundation in Hamilton GA. I bought it years ago in Newport Maine, and have not yet restored it. It needs new canvas and some wood repairs but has no cracked ribs or planking. Mostly the big repair will be the transom, which has started to come apart. Anyway, nothing that serious. My question is whether anyone has ever seen one of these with a small dodger or cuddy added? I plan to use this on Merrymeeting Bay and Moosehead lake, and both places can see some serious water. I was hoping to keep dry with the inevitable spray over the bow deflected from the passengers, and to keep any gear out of the weather. I can add a long deck as was an Old Town option during the rebuild. it would be nice to see a picture of what others may have come up with for weather protection.

A second question is about motor size. The Old Town literature gives a 10HP option as the max recommended. If you have one of these how does it perform with a 10? this seems rather under powered and I would bet she could handle 15 to18 rather well.

thanks

Ron

 

[Benson Gray]

Your local boat canvas shop can probably provide a number of good options for helping you stay dry in this boat. A long deck and a windshield will certainly help too. A few ideas from the 1950s Old Town catalogs are attached below. More information like this is available from http://store.wcha.org/The-Complete-Old-Town-Canoe-Company-Catalog-Collection-CD-ROM.html in the catalog collection.

I had an old friend with a lot of experience with old boats and motors who recommended that you never exceed the original manufacturer's horsepower recommendation by more than about ten percent. His logic was that modern engines tend to be lighter and smoother than the old ones but the wood and fastenings in an old boat may not be as strong as they were originally. Any catastrophic transom failure is guaranteed to be a really bad day. Let us know what you decide and how it works out,

Benson

 

[Dave Osborn]

Old haven,
I have a boat like yours in the shop right now. My opinion is that you should not exceed the original horsepower recommendation. All you have for support is the canvas and 5/32" planks connected to the transom. I think a 10 hp would push it along just fine...
Just my humble opinion...
Dave

 

[oldhaven]

Thanks Benson and Dave,

You make good arguments for a </= 10HP engine. I notice the pictures in the Old Town literature shows the boat running along pretty well with a 7 1/2. The description also says it will do 20 MPH with a 10. Even with a sales exaggeration and running slower for economy that is pretty good.

And thanks for the pictures of the windshield and spray covers. After posting I was looking around and found some pictures of the Pulsifer Hampton. It is built right in Brunswick, near me, and Dick Pulsifer offers a dodger and stern cover that would be just the thing for this boat, in a smaller size. Best of all thy are made by Cathance Marine Canvas, just a couple of miles from me in Bowdoinham. I have seen other small boats on the Bay with this type thing, and they seem to be a bit of a local tradition. So I think I will plan the front deck to accommodate something like it, with a coaming at the front like the Kennebec Joy Boy has. With a stern cover you could even sleep in the boat.

Ron

 

[MerchantMarine]

I have the same boat without the sponsons. It's a 1930 I put a 9.8 Nissan on her a brand new 4 stroke. She goes 17 MPH with 3 grown men and gear. Do not go any larger then that. The weight of the motor will be too much take it from me. I would make the humble suggestion that you go with a 6 horse if you buy a new 4 stroke because the weight of the motor in an 8 is the same as a 10. I just went through all these same questions. When I was a kid in the 1990's my dad had an 10 horse 2 stroke that was great for the boat. As far as seaworthiness the boat was in Casco Bay he took it out in all the big lakes. I have had it on the 2 biggest lakes in Maine and many others. I would love to talk to you anytime and have videos of the boat ruinning with the motor I have on her now. Currently I am considering downsizing the motor to a lesser weight motor. It's not the horse power it's the weight on the transom. I would advise a 2 stroke 10 and save 20 pounds or so. As far as a bow dodger I want one too! Anyway enjoy your boat!

 

[oldhaven]

Thanks for the advice MM. The arguments for the lighter weight motor are quite convincing, and the cost of a new 4 stroke 6-9.8 motor would put it out of reach for me anyway. I would imagine the greater weight would also be tough on the transom when trailering it, which is how I intend to use the boat. What I had in mind was finding a reliable 2 stroke that would be appropriate for the age of the boat. Evinrude/OMC and Mercury made some great 60's and 70's fishing motors in the 7.5 to 10HP range, and 50-60 lbs., 17-20MPH with a 12-15MPH cruise is just about what I was hoping for. I appreciate the offer to discuss your boat, and probably will get in touch when I get into the restoration and need advice. I have one non W/C boat to do first so probably won't get into the restoration before late summer/fall. I am right off I-295 in Bowdoin, ME., so please stop in if you are trailering it by on your way to your next adventure.

Ron

 

[Rollin Thurlow]

The 10 hp is about the max a boat of this style would safely handle. I had a 10 on my boat but am happier with the new 8 hp I got for it.
The transom and the wood hull would handle a bit larger motor just fine. What makes the larger motor undesirable is because the of design of the hull. It is a displacement hull which means it is not really designed to be a planning hull. After a certain amount of power the hull is just going to dig a hole in the water, the bow goes up and the stern goes down and it takes even a greater amount of power to gain even a little bit more speed and with more speed it becomes more unstable. Overall, that is not a good situation! The bigger motors can give you a thrill but it comes at a cost!
It would be easy enough to have a larger deck or dodger or canvas cover with bows installed on the boat, however there is not going to be much head room for any passenger sitting under the cover. The cover can help knock down the spray or keep gear dry but the passengers would really have to bent over unless the cover was extremely high. The boats described above are wider and deeper than your boat.

 

[oldhaven]

Thanks Rollin,

More sound advice from experience. Just what I was hoping for. I had not realized this was a displacement hull with the flat bottom at the stern. Also I am thrill averse at this stage of my life. Makes good sense. I will probably look for a really good used 7.5-8HP 2 stroke over the course of the next years fixit work. And, as you say, the dodger will only be a spray shield so I get less wet. More of that stage of life thing. That will be a last minute option anyway, though the longer deck would have to be planned from the beginning of the work. I'll be in touch.

Ron

 

[MerchantMarine]

I reread the post you talked about trailering the boat. You mention trailering the boat with the motor on it. I was strongly advised by the community not to do this. The bouncing is realy hard on the transom. I never ever trailer my boat with the motor on. I carry it to the water and mount it. It's a pain but my back is still strong enough to do it though that 9.8 four stroke does get heavy. Also the common advice is to use a bunk trailer. Hope to see you out there.

Tim

 

[MerchantMarine]

Some other info

http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?11385-1930-Old-Town-AA-Square-Stern

Read this tread it has lots of answers to the questions I asked.


Tim

 

[dtdcanoes]

Hi Ron, Dick Pulsifer and I go way back....he is a fraternity ( AD ) brother of mine '62 at Bowdoin. His boats are simply Cundy's Harbor and Maine building at its best. He is as fine a fellow as Maine can offer up. If you haven't already, you should meet him and savor the time. I have been challenged over the years and right now, with some wicked hard restoration of canoes used in the salt. The salt can be BRUTAL and I would bet Dick may have something to say about this. Tell him, a friend of yours says Hi Sparry ! I recall collecting sap with Dave Berry at the old Berry farm just about this time. How time flys when you stay busy. Good luck.
Dave

 

[oldhaven]

This is great information Dave and MM. The older thread is great information. I will not now be making a mistake with overpower or trailering with outboard. I already have a Tohatsu 4HP four cycle that I should try before getting anything else, but I am quite a way from that decision point. The trailer I will be using is set up with bunks so should be OK. One personal note for Dave if I can be allowed. I may stop in and see Dick, though I am sure he is quite busy. Do you remember John Detweiler from Bowdoin College? Gone now for ten years, but he was one of my best friends here in Maine and I am sure he knew Dick and some of the guys that worked on the boats with him at that time.

Ron