Sailing Canoes...

[KAT]

Can anyone give me an idea of which companies made sailing canoes and from what dates they were made, ie; 1910-1950? Was there any specific period they were made and then stopped? Did any of the canadian companies make sailing canoes that you are aware of? I know nothing of them but there is one for sale locally and the seller is stating a certain vintage but he has no way to back it up, so, if I go look at it, is there anyway other than a serial number to tell if it is indeed 1925's era?

Thanks
Karin

 

[Dan Miller]

Pretty much all of them did, and pretty much for the same amount of time that they built canoes...

What you will want to look for is if it is a factory-built rig or homebuilt. Usually it is pretty easy to tell by looking, sometimes it helps to know the builder and what their rig looked like.

 

[john hupfield]

Talk to Doug Ingrham at Red River Canoe. He is your local knowledge expert.
John

 

[KAT]

Thanks. I haven't spoken to Doug about this boat but he has seen photo's, the seller apparently sent him some.

Don't know what it is, although the sail rig looks old but not necessarily for this boat. Some is not original for sure. It is 16 foot, roughly 32 wide, 11" deep below the center thwart. It has tapered ribs and the cant rib is a full rib, not wide and thin like my Chestnut. The decks look to be replacements, the seats are plywood. Stems are in bad shape and would mostly need to be fully replaced. It has wider planking than I have seen before and it is in good shape. It would need at least 4 ribs for certain. It was fiberglassed at some point in it's life. There was no rudder, just what you see.

The information on the canoe we got from the seller, which he got from the fellow he bought it from.... It was a present for his grandmothers 18th birthday, Circa 1920's and the boat resided on Minaki Lake in NW Ontario for almost it's entire life from new. Apparently the sail rig was purchased with the boat at the time. The mast and spar are wood, the sail is cotton or cotton canvas.

We didn't buy it, the seller has someone else interested at the moment but if it is still there in a month we might go back and make an offer.

 

[Mark Adams]

It looks totally home made to me, but I am not a sail canoe expert by any means. It just lacks "polish" in every way.

 

[Benson Gray]

This doesn't look like any factory sail rig that I have ever seen. I agree with Mark that it is probably home made. It shows creativity but the hook and eye supports for the leeboards with leather straps to secure it all to the thwart don't look very strong. This would only work well in a very light wind.

Benson

 

[Paul Miller]

W.T. Bush made a sailing leeboard thwart very similar to include those hooks and eye bolts but the leeboards were a different shape.

Not sure how they were attached to the gunnels but you can see some tack holes at the ends of the thwart that would have held down some leather padding on the underside.

The rig shown on his canoe may be factory built.

Interesting,

Paul

 

[Dan Miller]

I have a set of Rushton leeboards that also employ the gate hook and eye. Different yet again from all those above, and not as far as I can tell a regular production item.

I also have a set of Walter Dean folding leeboards - the shape of the leeboard itself is very similar to those in Karin's photo, but the mount is completely different. It is possible that the boards were from a factory and cobbled with the rest of the bits to make it work.

Dan

 

[KAT]

We believe the sail rig is not for this canoe, it was just adapted to work on it. There was also a little seat back and the mast support uses wing nuts and the bolts are square and bent to fit under the gunwales. The leeboards and such look nice, but no way to put an age on it. The mast was wrapped up so we didn't actually see it.

What about the canoe itself? Any ideas? This is the first I've seen with the tapered ribs and wider planking. Did Chestnut ever use tapered ribs? The stem/gunwale tips are fully rotted which doesn't help with that, and the decks are only about a half inch thick, which to me suggests they are replacements. The stem bands are steel and don't have the cove on the back.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

It could be a Chestnut, but more likely its a Canadian or Peterborough, as they were more common in NW Ontario during that time period than a Chestnut. I have an early 20s Canadian with the full rib towards the stem rather than the flat wide cant, and many early Canadian boats have close to 4" wide planking, often WRC. Did the decks have any crown to them, as the early CCC boats are dead flat.
The leeboards look as though they started with a very old set, and cobbled them to go on this boat. The early sets like the Walter Dean set Dan has were of course for board and strip canoes with a single outer gunwale, and fastened differently than the later sets that fasten under the inner rail on open gunwale boats. I'd bet this was an older set adapted to use on this newer boat, as the equipment is all different woods and ages, and clearly modified. The mast step appears to be amateur work as well. Possibly the wing nut hardware was original to the leeboards and was then used for the mast step. Update us if you do get the boat, seats and stem work arent hard and it will be a sweet paddler no doubt.

 

[KAT]

Rather than see it go to the landfill, we brought this boat home tonight. Planning forward to keep me busy this coming winter since the Chestnut is coming along nicely.

So, I have pictures of the sail that came with it and managed to clean up the serial number. Part of it was under the block of wood for the mast and that portion of the stem is broken off, which will make for misery for me later, but I digress.

Here is what we have now... 16 foot long, 34" wide at the tumblehome, 12" deep. Planking is 3 7/8" wide. Ribs are 2 1/4" wide with 1" spacing and are tapered. Heart shaped decks with the leading edge chamfered, full cant rib, not thin and wide.

The serial number appears to be 15490 44. The break in the stem may or may not have destroyed any other numbers and the 1 may not be a number at all, there is a deformation in the wood there.

I just noticed the ribs at the decks are full under the deck but thinned beside the decks and the inwales are tapered as well.

Off to the wilderness tomorrow for 12 days.