new canoe and a half

[Craig Johnson]

Hi gang, need help on a new boat. I picked up a 17' Kennebec type 2A. 20" mahogany decks seats , thwarts, and gunwales, and floor rack. Oak keel and exterior stem bands. as close to perfect shape as I' seen. Not a single cracked rib and no tip rot. Original color red SN#22728 17 I think.
Thrown in was 1/2 an Old Town SN#109711. should have sponsoons. Since I am in the middle of restoring an Old Town that needs 20 new ribs and some planking thought I might try to take it apart and use the ribs to try to get a better match. Anybody ever try that? Any tips?
Thanks in advance for the help. Craig
Having trouble uploading photos, will try again later

 

[Craig Johnson]

photos I hope

hope this worked

 

[Benson Gray]

The Kennebec canoe with serial number 22728 is shown on pages 138 and 139 of volume four in the Kennebec ledgers. This was assigned to 17 foot long Kennebec model B. (There may have been a model A written first and then crossed out.) It was planked by Roy on April 22nd, 1939. The canvas covering and first filler coat was applied by Thib. on April 15th, 1939. (I realize that these are probably out of sequence but that is what the records appear to show.) Thib. applied the second filler coat on May 27th, 1939. It was railed by Mansell on July 13th, 1939. The "F 22" (Function number 22 or the keel?) and "F 24" (Function number 24 or the thwarts?) were completed by Thib. on July 22nd, 1939. The original color was red. It shipped on July 20th, 1939 to "Upson - Walton Co." or location "39-293". This location is probably an order number but we don't currently have enough information to identify it. (I realize that these last two dates also be out of sequence but that appears to be what the records show.) The image at http://www.muncy-upson.com/images/upson_in_oh.jpg may show the original destination in Ohio.

The Old Town canoe with serial number 109711 is a 16 foot long, CS (Common Sense) grade, Otca model with western red cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, oak decks, oak trim, and a keel. It was built between April, 1931 and April, 1932. The original exterior paint color was fire red with the name Patsy on the right and left bow. It was shipped on April 26th, 1932 to Pomeroy, Ohio.

The scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. The original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.

The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) as you probably know well by now. I hope that you will renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to renew.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match the canoe. Moving ribs from one canoe to another can be difficult in most cases. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

Benson

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi Craig,

Great pictures--- you have a beautiful Kennebec and half an Old Town that could be an interesting project.

I haven't restored a canoe nor bent a rib, but my guess is others will suggest it's easier and better all-around to make new ribs for your Old Town project... the ribs in your half-canoe may become too damaged in removal and may not be the size/shape you need in the other canoe anyway.

AND a couple of exciting projects are offered to you in this half-canoe. The obvious one is "a bookcase", but a whole canoe that can be enjoyed on the water can be made from a half canoe... there's an article about this in an issue of "Wooden Canoe". A sponson canoe doesn't need to be re-sponsoned, either... if that makes the thought of this project less daunting.

Kathy

 

[Craig Johnson]

Thanks

Thanks Benson
The kennebec is spot on. I must have the wrong # on the Old Town. I had 109711 17 and the 17' is clear although the first part could easily be wrong. It definitely had sponsons. Oh well Just parts anyway. I will se if I can Get a better look at the SN later. Thanks again.
Craig

 

[Kathryn Klos]

It's always interesting to find a build record. We know the model and date of a canoe that's only a piece of stem and a deck that seem like part of an archeological dig, and it's rather poetic knowing its build information.

If you post a digital picture of the serial number, it may be easier to decipher. I've tried 109771 (20' GS), 109777 (14' sq stern), 109717 (14' sq stern), 109171 (16' Otca) and 103711 (11' 50#)...

 

[Craig Johnson]

photos

Hi Kathryn
I couldn't agree more. The first thing I do is check the SN search to see who has found what out there, and the more steps it takes to find the right answer the more satisfying it is. You guys are providing a wonderful service. I think the first # may be a 4 because the date seems to early, especially since the sponson and fiberglass look original. Thanks again
Craig

 

[Benson Gray]

The number sure looks like 109711 but the record for that canoe is clearly not a 17 foot long canoe with sponsons. It isn't likely to be 409711 either since that number was probably issued in the 1990s and they weren't building canoes with sponsons then. You can't simply check the number on the stem at the other end of the canoe in this case so it appears that the actual build record may remain a mystery. I was not able to find any 17 foot canoes with sponsons in the 10971x area. The numbers 10971 and 112601 don't match either. Sorry,

Benson

 

[Kathryn Klos]

My guess is it's the HW model... and you're probably right about the sponsons, as Old Town added a carry thwart to sponson canoes.

 

[Tom Widney]

Did Old Town only add the hand carry thwart to the canoes with sponsoons unless a special order?

Tom

 

[Kathryn Klos]

"Did Old Town only add the hand carry thwart to the canoes with sponsoons unless a special order?"

It seems that way to me, but Benson may know differently. Old Town used carry thwarts on both ends of sponson canoes... and possibly "as requested". Carleton used a carry thwart on the bow end as part of their usual design and on both ends of sponson canoes.

So, if an OT HW has carry thwarts but no sponsons, check the sides for any telltale screw-holes!

Kathy