Insurance Value? 1924 17' HW with Sponsons - fully restored

[Paul Fopeano]

Here's and interesting question a client asked of me. He has a 17' 1924 Old town HW with sponsons that I recently restored for him. He asked me to give an appraisal of the canoe for "insurance" purposes. (Thinking that means if the canoe was destroyed it would be replaced.) I know what the canoe builders in New England charge for there 17 footers (average around $4400) and I know that Old Town charges $7599 for both their 16' Guides & OTCAs. The only 17' OT shows on their web site is their Molitor at $8699. None of those prices included sponsons. What can a fair insurance value (replacement value?) be for a 88 year old fully restored, out of production canoe with the sponson option when there is such a wide range of prices for new canoes? I watch all the older canoe market places I can find and there to, is such a range of list prices I am at a loss to nail down a value for anything. Besides, we all know that those prices tend to be about what the seller wants to make off a sale. To be fair, (and professional about it all) does anyone have any ideas??

 

[Kathryn Klos]

I know that Antiques Roadshow will say an antique is worth more when looking at insurance value than sale value. Under FAQs here in forums is a good discussion of canoe value, looking at sale (or purchase) price, and I think we all know that what a person pays to have a canoe restored can be somewhat more than what the person could sell the canoe for, unless it was a Gerrish or Rushton or other very rare canoe. Denis and I do insure our canoes and give a value based on condition and rarity. An Old Town HW isn't rare with or without sponsons, unless it's one of the very early types with extended rails and is 15 feet long or something. I'd put the value of this canoe at the cost of the restoration plus what the person paid for the canoe prior to restoration-- if the person paid $1000 for the canoe and $3000 for the restoration, he could say $4000, as long as he knew it was for insurance purposes and if he chose to sell the canoe, it might sit around a very long time at that price.

 

[Paul Fopeano]

Thanks Kathryn! I totally understand and agree and with all you said. And, I think that your valuation of the HW is spot on with what seems to be happening in the market.

I assume that when one buys an insurance policy for a canoe, or anything else, he pays a premium to protect from loss - based on his (or someone's) perceived value of that item. So if he thinks that his 1924 17' OT HW is worth $4000 that's how the insurance company will base what he will pay for his policy; and more for a more valuable canoe. He can expect to get a check for $4000 in the event of a loss - not a replacement canoe. If what he wants to protect is his ability to own a canoe, a 17' OT canoe for example, I think that you might have to look at the thing a little differently. The HW is not a production canoe anymore, so replacing it with another model is necessary if you want to stay with OT. Since there is only one 17' OT being advertised on their website, that is where the replacement value should come from, I think. If another brand is acceptable, you should pay for enough insurance to buy something else should you suffer a total loss. - Considering a good rebuilt as almost as good as new and certainly as valuable, if I was my client, (with the means) I would feel OK buying enough insurance to buy a new 17' from any good builder for around $4500 - but, if I had to have an Old Town 17' canoe to replace a 17' Old Town wouldn't I buy enough insurance to buy the Molitor? I guess the choice is up to him and his economic situation?

 

[Dan Lindberg]

If this is anything like cars, wouldn't they (the Ins co) want to replace the '24 HW with another roughly '24 HW?

And as HW's are everywhere and relatively cheap, that shouldn't be a problem.
FWIW, the value of a restored HW is about 2k.

Dan

 

[Dan Miller]

If this is anything like cars, wouldn't they (the Ins co) want to replace the '24 HW with another roughly '24 HW?

And as HW's are everywhere and relatively cheap, that shouldn't be a problem.
FWIW, the value of a restored HW is about 2k.

Dan

Aye, but when you need to locate that canoe, and hire a restorer to bring it to like condition, it is considerably more than that.

 

[Dan Lindberg]

Hey Dan,

Ya, if a canoe in the desired condition couldn't be found, then yes, the replacement (and restoration) cost would be much higher, I was thinking that as HW's are so common, and there seem to be so many "restored" canoes for sale, that it wouldn't be too hard to find a suitable HW replacement.

And that brings up another thought, and maybe the "site" admins already have/know this but, how many of the canoe listed for sale actually sell, and if so, at what price? Some of the adds seem to be very old and may or maynot be current/vaild. Just curious.

Dan

but more important, how is your new shop coming?

 

[Benson Gray]

how many of the canoe listed for sale actually sell, and if so, at what price?

The classifieds here don't provide that sort of detail. You can follow the completed listings on eBay to get a better idea for the previous thirty days. The typical results are predictable, the canoes with low prices usually sell and the ones with high prices ones often don't.

Benson