Kennebec Kineo 4018

I recently aquired a kennebec canoe, kineo serial 4018. Can anyone tell me about it? Age, possible value. Two of the ribs,one in the bow,one in the stern, were eaten by squirrels. The piece of metal over the stems has a few screws that have pulled out. The canvas ( I think is original) is starting to pull away at the gunnel. This looks to be in fine shape other than the things I mentioned. I will psot some pictures as soon as I take them. I also have an extra seat and an oar that needs to have the paint removed and then finished. I am very handy with wood and this looks to be a great project. I was amazed that this canoe is lighter than the modern one that I have.

Thanks for the help.

DeepSea

Here's a link to a discussion RE: value...
http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?57-How-much-is-my-old-wooden-canoe-worth

I think Benson has the info on Kennebec build dates; I'm sure he'll chime in before long.

There are two possibilities for your canoe with the serial number 4018:

The first possibility is an 18' canoe built in 1913, that is not identified as to model in the Kennebec ledger books.The second is a 17' Kineo Special built in 1931 (in a confusing manner, the second canoe's number is 104018, but Kennebec often omitted the leading "10" or substituted an "M" for that part of the number).

To help figure it out, we need to know the length of your canoe, and how you identified it as a Kineo model. Also, is it open or closed-gunwale?

Dan

Thank you for the quick response. The number stamped into the stem is 17 104018. The brass tag says Kineo Specail with the 4018 stamped into it. It is an open gunwale. I will post some pictures later once I get them out of my camera. Can you suggest some technical books on the restore process?

Thank you,

DeepSea (Todd)

The Wood & Canvas Canoe by Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmok is the book that is most often cited in this forum and is generally considered to be the go-to reference. It covers every aspect of building and restoring a classic wood and canvas canoe. It can be found here:

http://www.wooden-canoes.com/booksandvids.htm

Here are some pictures of the old girl.
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe14.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe13.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe12.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe11.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe10.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe9.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe8.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe7.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe6.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe5.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe4.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe3.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe2.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe1.jpg
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/DeepSeaToddMaci/canoe15.jpg

BCam said:

The Wood & Canvas Canoe by Rollin Thurlow and Jerry Stelmok is the book that is most often cited in this forum and is generally considered to be the go-to reference. It covers every aspect of building and restoring a classic wood and canvas canoe. It can be found here:

http://www.wooden-canoes.com/booksandvids.htm

Click to expand...

Thanks, I will check it out.

The Kennebec canoe with number 104018 is a 17 foot long "Kineo Special" model shown on pages 280 and 281 of volume five in the Kennebec ledgers. It was planked by Lane on February 28th, 1931. The canvas covering and first filler coat were applied by T. Thib. on the same day. Giroux applied the second filler coat on May 16th, 1931. It was railed by Brooks on May 23rd, 1931. The "F 22" (Function number 22 or the keel?), "F23", "F24" (Function number 24 or the thwarts?), "F25" (Function number 25 or the seats?), and "F28" were completed by Giroux on May 23rd, 1931. It appears to have been originally shipped on May, 25th 1931 to location "31-305". This location is probably an order number but we don't currently have enough information to identify it.

The scans of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below. These original Kennebec records are reproduced through the courtesy of the Maine State Museum.

The microfilms and scans of these records were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA). I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-the-wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://store.wcha.org/WCHA-New-Membership.html to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the restoration,

Benson

Benson,
Thank you for that information. I see it did not have a color stated in the record. Is there a default color that they painted the canoe if none was stated in the record. I think this has original canvas and an orginal yellow color under the second coat of yellow paint. I also uploaded some photo links to Photobucket.com and it said that they have to be approved by the moderator before they will be posted here. Any idea how long that takes. I am curious as to what the condition is. It looks good to me but I may be overlooking something

Thank you again,

Todd

The condition looks good in your pictures but there are usually a few surprises once you get the canvas off and start working on it. The 1931 Kennebec catalog states that the "Kineo Special" model is "carried in stock in red and green. Other colors can be supplied on order." The blank is not usually a default option and probably means that someone simply neglected to add this information since it appears to have been finished and shipped in a hurry. You may also want to contact someone from a local chapter listed at http://www.wcha.org/local-area-chapters/ to see if they can offer any suggestions.

Benson

The post with the photo links has been validated - the forums software flags posts with large numbers of links, since this is a common spammer characteristic.

There was not a "default" color, but red and green were the only colors kept in stock - all other colors were to order. You may find evidence of the original color when you remove hardware or gunwales.

You can add a few photos to a post directly. Scroll down from "Post New Thread"where you write your text, and you will see "Manage Attachments." Click on that, and you will get a File Upload Manager, which has a box "Add Files." Click on that, and you will get "Select Files" which will allow you to browse the directories of your computer. After selecting your pictures, you "upload files," and if the resulting thumbnails are checked, click "insert inline" and they will be inserted into your "new thread" text, appearing something like "" You can preview your post to see the relationship between text and pictures, and by cutting and pasting you can move a picture around just as you would words of your text.

You do not need to use a service such as Photobucket or the like, although if you have many photos, it may be easier.

Sometimes Kennebec used copper stem bands. You may want to determine if this is the case with your canoe and restore the stem band rather than replacing if this is the case, as copper stem bands are no longer available and it would be cool to have the original copper.

This should be a very nice canoe!

Kathy

Kathy,
Thanks for the reply. It does indeed have the copper stem bands. Both are in very good condition. The inside finish is in very good condition. Should I not do anything to it when I recanvas and fix the two ribs? If I refinish the inside will this detract from value? Should I try to keep everthing as original as possible? THe gunwales will need to be refinished as the last painter did not do a neat job. Should I also try to keep the ceder 1/4 round piece that goes over the tacks the hold in the canvas at the gunwale? I think I can even salvage the brass/ bronze tacks! Any other advice you could give would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Todd