Carlton SN 108179 - 16

Several days ago I posted that I won't ever own another sponson canoe.

That was several days ago and I have aged, matured and reconsidered. Or put another way, I fell victim to yet another canoe.

I would appreciate learning the details about the 16 foot Carleton that is sitting on the roof of my car....until I figure out where I am going to put it.

Is there a Philadelphia connection?

The Carleton serial numbers don't go up this high so my guess is that you have the Old Town canoe with serial number 108179 which was converted to a Carleton before it was shipped. This is a 16 foot long, CS (Common Sense) grade, HW (Heavy Water) model with western red cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, birch decks, birch thwarts, birch seats, a keel, and sponsons. It was built between November, 1930 and July, 1931. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped on August 3rd, 1931 to Saranac Inn(?) Station, New York. A scan showing this build record can be found by following the link at the attached thumbnail image below.

These scans and several hundred thousand others were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others as you probably know well. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join.

It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. Feel free to reply here if you have any questions.

Benson

Hmmmm.

Hi Benson,

Thank you for the information. I just did a re-check on the number but it's hard to read upside down in the dark. It's on my car. I think I got it right.
It has a Carleton brass tag and hand thwarts like my other Carlton. I don't think there is much question about whether or it is a Carlton, only if I got the right number off of it. It's original including the canvas.
Interestingly the canoe spent it's years on Upper Saranac at one of the great camps.

Just curious... While looking in Stelmok & Thurlow for other information, I ran across a bit (p. 32), which says "H.W." is "reportedly for Henry Wickett." This conflicts with the "Heavy Water" description... granted, the vagaries of antiquity come into play, but I'm interested in any thoughts on the designation, as an owner of an HW model.

The short answer is that no one knows for sure since there is virtually no documentation for any of the various theories. Dan Miller's message at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=1806 has a good summary of this. The oral tradition was that Henry Wickett was one of the first Old Town employees and the HW model was named for him as reported in Rollin and Jerry's book. Sue Audette's research for her book which came out later indicated that Henry Wickett never worked there and that his son Alfred Wickett was the first employee of the Old Town Canoe Company. Roger MacGregor's book came out even later and suggested that HW might have been for a Canadian designer named Henry Wicksteed who was a friend of J. R. Robertson. This last theory seems the least likely since the HW model was listed in the Indian Old Town Canoe Company catalog from 1901 before Robertson became involved in 1902. It is very popular with many Canadians though. The Old Town catalogs consistently described the HW model as being good for heavy water in the same way that the IF or Guide's model was described as being an Indian fishing canoe.

Benson

Fascinating... Yes, the vagaries of antiquity are playing games with us. "Heavy Water" certainly has the best documentation, coming from the catalogs, but the other concepts are well worth noting. Thanks, Benson!

Benson Gray said:

The Carleton serial numbers don't go up this high so my guess is that you have the Old Town canoe with serial number 108179 which was converted to a Carleton before it was shipped.
Benson

Click to expand...

Hi Benson,

Re-reading your note and my reply from earlier I see that I missed your point.

So I have a few questions..

Other than the obvious, how does this Carleton differ from my 1924? Was my earlier canoe built on a Carleton specific form whereas this one is simply an OT renamed Carleton?

When did OT stop offering Carleton W&C? (SN).

Saranac Inn Station NY was the rail station access to this particular region of NY. There was a station in Theresa, Utica, Old Forge, maybe a few others.
The person that bought this canoe (Button) was from Philadelphia and the owner of a very interesting camp on Upper Saranac where the canoe stayed for the last 80 years.
It's the same canoe so I'm very interested to learn more from you about the serialization.

MGC said:

So I have a few questions..

Other than the obvious, how does this Carleton differ from my 1924? Was my earlier canoe built on a Carleton specific form whereas this one is simply an OT renamed Carleton?

When did OT stop offering Carleton W&C? (SN).

I'm very interested to learn more from you about the serialization.

Click to expand...

Yes, your 1924 Carleton was built on the 17 foot long Carleton form and this one was built on the 16 foot long HW form. The 1916 inventory shown at http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2360&d=1165465391 and http://forums.wcha.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2361&d=1165465391 lists both of these forms. Their demand forecasting and inventory systems were not flawless so they would occasionally swap decks and/or name plates to fill a rush order. Usually this was noted on the build record but that system wasn't perfect either.

The last known Carleton catalog is dated 1941 and the highest Carleton serial number appears to be 20545 which shipped on July 13th, 1945.

The Old Town Canoe Company purchased the Carleton Canoe Company in March of 1910. The lowest Carleton serial number that went out the door after the sale was 7046 which shipped on April 5th 1910. Page 56 of Sue Audette's book about the Old Town Canoe Company describes how the original Carleton factory burned on May 17th, 1911 so all of their canoe building was consolidated with Old Town after that date. However, they continued to print Carleton catalogs and sell Carleton canoes as shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/carleton/carleton_chart.html here. The full factory inventory from January 1st, 1938 lists six Carleton forms and 51 Old Town forms. The information at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=6860 shows both of these canoe factories.

Let me know if this doesn't answer your question or if you would like more details. Thanks,

Benson