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Weldwood plastic resin glue

Discussion in 'Strippers, Stitch-n-Glue, and Other Wood Composite' started by Lickboot, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Would someone tell me or post pics of the color of this product when it is dry, I'm trying to match my wood color, thank you.
     
  2. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    I don't have anything with visible Weldwood showing on hand at the moment, but I've used a lot of it over the years. It is kind or a pinky tan shade, about like the paint in the region on this canoe that the arrow is pointing at, or a little bit darker. It doesn't call all that much attention to itself, which is one reason that it works pretty well for gap filling on strippers, but as for "matching" any specific wood's color, maybe not so much. Being water based though, you can probably tint it with small amounts of acrylic art paint in the mix water, or water based stain.

    DSCF0019.JPG
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Ok thanks Todd, does it darken when wetted?, because my cedar is kinda of a pinky brown color but darkens a bit when wetted. I’m hoping the weld wood does too a bit. Any more pics of the dried glue dry and wetted glue would be wonderful if you could.
     
  4. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Before it's mixed it looks kind of like malted milk powder, a pretty light tan-ish brown. Once mixed it darkens to look more like the color of the paint above. It's a bit lighter when sanded, but when varnished or fiberglassed-over that will returns to the paint-like color. Cedar goes through a much more dramatic darkening when you wet it.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Ok it sounds like I'm going to have to tiny it with a bit of brown paint, my only hope is that when I sand the canoe the paint hasn't stained the wood.
     
  6. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    What exactly is the project here? Since this stuff is a powder mixed with water, and the water evaporates away as it dries, there is a certain amount of shrinkage involved as it dries. It is about as thick as pancake batter, so it does have some gap-filling ability, but compared to other products (some wood fillers, epoxy fairing compounds, etc.) it is probably not the greatest for big fills or cosmetic stuff. It's also hard enough that it sands harder than most cedar, so leveling a big fill with the surrounding wood without dishing the wood around the fill can be tricky.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I'm thinking of using it for striping my bead and cove strip canoe, I was thinking about it because my strips have tiny chunks taken out by the router that I can't sand out and I hate a glue line no matter the brand, so I was thinking if this weld-wood and wondering that it would just fill this tiny cracks
     
  8. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Check out the colored/filled carpenter glues, there is a very dark version and a lighter tan one. I used the tan as it's thicker and doesn't run.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    What brand is it, I tried titebond dark, it's too dark, tried titebond 3 it's to light, I guess I'm very picky on making a canoe with no noticeable glue lines, or getting it as good as I can
     
  10. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    In my opinion, you are over-thinking what will be a very minor issue in the cosmetics or quality of your canoe. Strippers are made with a whole bunch of pieces, carefully (hopefully) glued together into a curved and rounded shape. There is no getting away from that, and you may have a few minor spots where a glue line or small glue-filled gap shows, but unless they are large areas of obviously poor craftsmanship fitting the strips together, nobody is likely to even notice them.

    There are plenty of opportunities to be very picky about your craftsmanship on a stripper, but the color of possible visible glue lines (which should be minimal with any decent level of craftsmanship to start with) is way down the list. If it's your first build, you will likely find some issues during construction as you learn the process which are far more important to fuss over.

    The reasons that I have always used Weldwood for strippers are that it is adequate strength-wise, it is brittle enough that it sands very cleanly with a big disk sander, unlike the Tightbond types which smear from the heat generated by the disk speed. It's easy to mix and cheap enough that making a bit too much and throwing out the excess isn't much money down the drain, and the color is pretty good as a minor gap filler if needed. It is certainly not the only glue option, but it's a good one.

    In terms of color-matched wood fillers, there are even lines on the market these days of what is essentially wood-colored drywall mud made in various wood-tone shades which could be used after the glue dries and under the Glass to plug and fair small strip defects. Places like Woodcraft carry them.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Ok thanks Todd, I've just ordered some so I'm excited to try it!
     
  12. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    If this is your 1st stripper, don't worry about the looks, use this build to learn the process and practice the methods.
    You will build a 2ed that you can then concentrate on better craftsmanship and looks.

    BTW a 1st timers mistake is to use way too much glue, it takes just a very small amount to glue the strips.
    NONE should squeeze out on a "perfect" joint.

    I couldn't find the stuff I used, but it was filled with wood flour? to make it thicker and less runny. It worked great.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Ok thanks Dan, Made my first one and was successful, Im making my second one and I'm going to make this one as close to perfection as I can and take my time.
     
    Dan Lindberg likes this.
  14. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    So you are on your 2ed then, good, keep us posted and with pics, we love pics.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Lickboot

    Lickboot Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Ok I sure will for you, when I get is going.
     
  16. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Curious what kind of cure time the Weld wood has ?
    It's mixed with water, and if left in an applicator long, or Too long. it hardens.
    Mix ratios have to be pretty accurate also.
    Drying hard, makes it difficult to scrape. The need for this hardness is really not necessary ! Runs would be a pain to clean up later, as you sand. Be minimal with it's use !

    I'd stick with the tried and true Alphatic glues ( Elmers Max or Titebond III). I and thousands of other strip builders, have used them for decades.

    My $ .02 worth

    Jim
     
  17. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    "It's mixed with water, and if left in an applicator long, or Too long. it hardens."

    As one who used it for years on every stripper I built, I've never been aware of that happening. It is water-based, just as Tightbond or Elmer's are, not catalyzed. Drying time is similar to them.

    "Mix ratios have to be pretty accurate also."

    You just mix the powder with water until it has the thickness you want. We never measured either the powder or the water added at all. Put some powder in a tub, pour in water slowly as you mix it until it has the batter-like consistency. We never had a batch fail to harden or harden before we needed to use it. We would generally apply it to half a dozen strips at once, using a roller.

    "Runs would be a pain to clean up later, as you sand. Be minimal with it's use !"

    As a builder who actually used it (as did Hazen,Wilderness Boats and a fair number of the MCA marathon paddlers/builders) we never had any problems sanding it or removing any drips or excess. It sands very well.
     
  18. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    So How much did you mix at a time ? Would it last all day ? Titebond bottles just need a cap, and are good for a year at least !

    How would you roll adhesive on a bead and coved strip ? That is better accomplished with a tip applicator, in my view .

    I knew of only one, other than you, that used Weld wood. Martin Van, of Ogalee Canoes. Wisconsin. He would mix a small amount, that was sufficient to do about 9 strips, before he deemed it unuseable. He used staples on his canoes . He also produced some of the best canoes I've seen !

    I'm not trying to be argumentative ! Just wondering if it is so good, why most people don't use it ?

    I guess I should buy some and try it !

    Thanks Todd !

    Jim
     
  19. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    I learned strip building from the folks at Wilderness Boats in Oregon, who had purchased David Hazen's company and commercial rights to the brand and Hazen's designs. I was their farthest eastern dealer (in Illinois) selling Wilderness Boats (along with Old Town, Lincoln Canoes, Sawyer, We-no-nah, Beaver, Grumman, Hyperform and Phoenix kayaks and Kleppers, Alcort Sailboats and Hobie Cat). Norman Sims (co author of the great new book "Canoes - A natural History in North America") and I started building some models in his garage which weren't commercially available (a Hazen double kayak, my 22' fur trade canoe, and a couple of smallish solo canoes. We also built a gizmo that would take the lines off of existing boats for duplication in strips. Norm got a strip replica of his Morris and I got one of a Jensen marathon cruiser.

    When we started (mid 1970s) Wilderness was retailing Sitka spruce strip Hazen Micmacs for around $690 and to do that they needed to crank them out pretty quickly. They typically figured on about 75 man hours of labor to build a 16'-18' canoe. Boats from the marathon builders like Jensen and Camp were in a similar price range in those days. There was no such thing as bead and cove yet (not that it was much of a big deal) and there was none of the current one or two strips per day pace that many amateur builders can now build with. This was boat building for money.

    We weren't selling our personal builds, but we built them using the same methods that we had learned to build with. Sanding was done with big disk sanders, inside and out for the raw wood and also for the final sanding on the glass. Tightbond-type glues are terrible for that because the sander smears them. Weldwood is perfect for the job because it sands away very cleanly and is much easier to work with than catalyzed glues like epoxy - and much cheaper. We would strip most hulls in three evenings. The first night we would strip the bottom panel (stapled). The second night we would trim the bottom to its final shape, bevel its edges to meet the first side strips and strip one whole side. The third night we would strip the second side. Night number four would be spent pulling staples and then sanding the wood smooth with the big disk sander and getting it ready for glassing.

    We mixed the Weldwood in small batches in plastic margarine tubs or similar. Half a dozen strips would be clamped, flat sides together, and stood on the floor with one edge up. A small batch of glue would be mixed and then it was rolled onto all of them in one swath. One by one they would be stapled to the forms and the whole batch would be attached and done in about ten minutes, ready to start adding another batch and mix another small amount of the glue. This would be repeated until the side was completed. I used two staple guns. One "normal" Duo Fast gun shooting 9/16" staples into the forms, and a small Bostich T-11 "Tackler" model to shoot another line of staples straddling the glue joints between forms. The T-11 staples looked like 1/4" round-leg office staples. Their holes are so small that they nearly disappear on the finished boat.

    Within a few years I had pretty much tired of strip building and after buiding some "unusual" boats with it, moved on to other and more traditional forms of boat building and restoration (wooden and fiberglass sailboats, inflatables, etc.) If I ever build any more strippers, using any method, I will absolutely do it with Weldwood as it has always worked great for me, though it's certainly not the only glue that works for stripping.

    drift-boat.jpg
     
  20. Jim Dodd

    Jim Dodd LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Thanks Todd for the history lesson on your strip building beginnings ! I enjoyed it !

    You have to develop some skill with a disc sander, not to chew through a curved canoe hull. I'm afraid I'd be looking at a lot of Day light if I tried that !

    In your pics, those look to be Drift boats . How thick were the strips on those hulls ?
    A flat sided hull would be a lot quicker to build ! Not having to bevel each strip joint !

    Floated the Alcee (spl ?) river, once in Oregon, in an old wood drift boat. It was back in the early 70's. Definitely not as nice as yours ! But it gave me an appreciation for how they handled the wave hydraulics ! It was fun !

    Thanks again Todd !

    Jim
     

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