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unknown manufacturer

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by danray35e, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. danray35e

    danray35e Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I have a 16 ft. Royalex? Canoe. Dark green outside, tan inside. No name or marking except for some numbers written on the inside left stern. Numbers are hand written. Numbers are 881229.
     
  2. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    There should be a Hull ID Number (HIN) on the starboard stern. Take that to http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic1.aspx and you should be able to identify the manufacturer. Also, pictures help... Green Royalex canoes with tan interiors were made by a lot of companies.
     
  3. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    There was a period when a very large percentage of America's early Royalex canoe hulls were made at the Uniroyal plant in Warsaw Indiana. Small canoe companies couldn't afford the machinery to mold their own, but they could drive their truck to Warsaw, buy bare hulls, take them home, trim them out and add "their own" 16' Royalex canoe to their product line-up. The Uniroyal hull was stable, rather slow and had rather fat stems. It was nicknamed the "Warsaw Rocket" in the industry - at least until it got back to the canoe company, where it would be given gunwales, seats, and some sort of trendy Indian-inspired name like the "Princess Pocahontas Love Barge" and sent out the door. It wasn't a great boat, but it wasn't a bad boat and it was very durable.

    You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    danray35e

    danray35e Curious about Wooden Canoes

    picture

    IMG_20140814_072735984.jpg Here is a picture of it. Bare in mind it has been modified somewhat. Different seats etc.
    QUOTE=Todd Bradshaw;63224]There was a period when a very large percentage of America's early Royalex canoe hulls were made at the Uniroyal plant in Warsaw Indiana. Small canoe companies couldn't afford the machinery to mold their own, but they could drive their truck to Warsaw, buy bare hulls, take them home, trim them out and add "their own" 16' Royalex canoe to their product line-up. The Uniroyal hull was stable, rather slow and had rather fat stems. It was nicknamed the "Warsaw Rocket" in the industry - at least until it got back to the canoe company, where it would be given gunwales, seats, and some sort of trendy Indian-inspired name like the "Princess Pocahontas Love Barge" and sent out the door. It wasn't a great boat, but it wasn't a bad boat and it was very durable.

    You could possibly be the owner of a genuine Warsaw Rocket. With that sort of number written in the hull, it could also maybe be an early Old Town "Oltonar" canoe (the name they called their Royalex) - which may have been old enough to precede the modern serial number systems. The style of the gunwales and trim-out will give us the best hints if it has no official serial number.[/QUOTE]
     

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  5. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Nope, it's not a Warsaw Rocket. It's a more recent hull shape than the Rocket - recent enough that it should have a modern twelve digit hull identification number on the outside stern. The first three of them would be letters indicating the manufacturer. The Hull has that Old Town Penobscot-style, or early Mad River Royalex (including the grab loops) profile, though they weren't the only companies that eventually built that sort of shape. It has an abnormally high number of rivets holding the gunwales on, so the builder was interested in being heavy-duty, or it may have been built specifically for a livery operation. In any case, it should be a pretty good boat in the water.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    danray35e

    danray35e Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Well I installed the grab loops. It didn't have them before. I replaced the rivets with stainless screws. I also replaced the old plastic molded seats that were in it. I've searched in vain front, back, inside and out, and still the only numbers were the ones written inside. Its frustrating because I want to put a trolling motor on it, but in order to do that, I have to have it registered in Florida. Can't do that without number, so they can check to see if its stolen.

     
  7. OP
    OP
    danray35e

    danray35e Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Also, I modified the black abs ( covers, bow and stern) they were longer , and flimsy, and one had a break/ tear in it.
    So I cut off some of the excess, heated, and formed it over plywood to make it rigid. It is a great ride in the water.

     
  8. thompsonboatboy

    thompsonboatboy LOVES Wooden Canoes

    If was built prior to November 1972 it will NOT have the 12 character US Coast Guard HULL ID.

    Andreas
     
  9. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    Nobody anywhere was building Royalex boats with that sort of profile prior to 1972. In fact, the only Royalex canoes on the market that early may have been Indian Brand "Sagamore" models and they had a more typical "guide shape".
     
  10. thompsonboatboy

    thompsonboatboy LOVES Wooden Canoes

    Was Royalex the same thing as Royalite? Thompson Royal-Craft, Inc. of Cortland, NY was making Royalite boats and canoes in the time period 1959 to 1961/62. Crestliner and several other builders were using US Rubber's Royalite to make watercraft at that time period.

    Andreas
     
  11. OP
    OP
    danray35e

    danray35e Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Perhaps we need to discern if it is indeed royalex. As I said in my original post royalex? This I can tell you. It has seen lots of use. The areas of wear are where you would expect them to be. So where it is worn , it is black , and as I said tan on inside, and green outside. Is that royalex?
     
  12. mccloud

    mccloud Wooden Canoe Maniac

    The outside colored layers are vinyl. Underneath is a thin layer which is often black ABS. And in the middle is the usually white layer which 'foams' during vacuum forming. The flat ABS-containing sheets could be manufactured in varying thicknesses and different numbers of layers, depending on the application. If you see a foamed middle layer then it is almost certainly some type of "ABS" hull. Tom McCloud
     
  13. Todd Bradshaw

    Todd Bradshaw Sailmaker

    "Royalite" is a solid plastic sheet of an ABS /PVC alloy. It can be molded when heated. The big challenges when making boats with it would be the sheet being overly flexible to make a decent hull from without other structure (adding several molded-in mini-keels down the bottom is one common way to help control this problem) and the fact that ABS has a pretty poor UV lifespan. Paint is the best fix for that.

    "Royalex" as Mccloud said has a vinyl skin inside and outside as an abrasion and UV barrier (your green and tan) then layers of ABS for strength under the vinyl skins (usually gray or black) sandwiching its foam core (usually tan). The sheets could be ordered specifically reinforced with extra ABS layers built-in for areas of the hull that would need more strength. This helped to keep the weight down, making the hull tougher where it needed to be, and less reinforced up high where it just needed to keep water out.
     
  14. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Bart Hauthaway used to joke that Royalite canoes were great if you were only planning to use them for night paddling.

    Benson
     

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