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Serial Number Search

Discussion in 'Serial Number Search' started by brian22, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I bought an old canoe from an Antique dealer and he said it was an Old Town. I don't know if it is or not? I did find the serial number, and would like to know more about it, as I will be hanging it up in my Bait and Tackle Shop. The number on the bottom in the boat is 725 18
    That is all I can find for numbers, and no letters to speak of. Any information would be great.


    Thanks,
    Brian
     
  2. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Lots of people think that any wood/canvas canoe is an Old Town.
    Yours may be, but there were others...lots of them.
    If it is it will likely have more numbers. Try wetting the numbers or applying a little paint and varnish remover to see if there are more numbers. If it is an Old Town, it will likely have 5 or 6 digits prior to the 18.
    Photos will help us identify it.
     
  3. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Some of the tricks at http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?791 may help with serial numbers that are hard to read in addition to Dave's suggestions. Can you provide some pictures of the numbers from each end with the surrounding areas? Some images showing the decks and interior could also be useful, along with a confirmation of the extreme overall length in a straight line. Feel free to reply if you have any other questions.

    Benson
     
  4. kingofsales

    kingofsales New Member

    Hi,

    I just purchased an Old Canoe at an estate sale, and I found a number on the inside wall. It's serial #132063. I was told is was an Old Town from the early 1940's.

    Could someone help me find out the build date, and original markings for the canoe, as I have ambitions to restore at some point.

    Thanks in advance .

    Regards,

    King of Sales
     
  5. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    The Old Town canoe with serial number 132063 is a 16 foot long, CS (common sense or middle) grade, HW (Heavy Water) model with open spruce gunwales, ash decks, ash thwarts, ash seats, and a keel. It was built between March and July, 1941. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped on April 4th, 1942 to Grand River, Detroit, Michigan. A scan of this build record can be found by following the link at the attached thumbnail image below.

    This scan and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/ot_records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/wcha/ to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/join.php to join.

    It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if this description doesn't match your canoe. I'm not sure what you mean by the "original markings for the canoe." Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions. Good luck with the restoration,

    Benson
     

    Attached Files:

  6. kingofsales

    kingofsales New Member

    Mr. Gray,

    Thank you for helping me with the info you provided. Yes, the canoe is green, 16" long, and it was purchased in the Detroit area. I though some of these canoes had marking/painted images, the reason for my comment "original markings for the canoe".

    Thanks again for your assistance.

    Regards,

    King of Sales
     
  7. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Many Old Town canoes had "marking/painted images" as shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/designs/thumbnal.html but these were usually noted on the build record. Your build record does not appear to have any notation like this so it probably left the factory with uniform dark green paint. Feel free to add one that you like,

    Benson
     
  8. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I will try to get pictures tomorrow. The canvas is mostly off but the number is fairly clear at one end of the canoe. It has a diamond pattern going around the top edge the canoe, not sure if that is a marking of them. That's what the antique guy said, but I have know idea. I appreciate any info.
     
  9. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Brian,
    If the bolts for the seats and thwarts have a diamond shaped head, it is an Old Town.
    Looking forward to the photos..
     
  10. Michael Grace

    Michael Grace Lifetime Member

    As Benson said, there were many paint schemes available from Old Town and other canoe companies. Because the build record for this Old Town number simply says "Dark Green", then that canoe was almost certainly uniformly green. If it had a special paint scheme from the factory, that would have been noted. The antique dealer was wrong if he said that a certain paint scheme denotes a certain builder. Even if a particular paint scheme was used (sometimes) by a particular maker, people often re-painted their canoes over the years, changed colors, and even added fancy patterns. Old Town isn't defined by any particular paint scheme. Benson's link shows this; for examples from specific canoes, just look at the many Old Town build records in the serial number search forum.

    It is possible that your paint scheme is original and even from Old Town but if so, you've likely got a mistake in the serial number. You can look through these forums and see numerous examples where people simply missed a digit or read one or more digits wrong. These old serial numbers can be tricky. When you make photos, be sure to get some good ones of the stem... and details of the rest of the canoe. It's possible that your serial number is correct but that it's not an Old Town. Photos of decks, seats, thwarts, stem curve, etc. will usually help definitively identify a canoe; photos of the stems with many eyes looking will help you confirm the serial number.

    Folks here are happy to help and photos make all the difference in the world.

    Michael
     
  11. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    Dr. Grace...
    You are confusing the build record for kingofsales canoe, who hijacked this post, and Brian22's posts.
    But you are correct in that paint schemes may have changed over the years.
    And, as I mentioned, diamond headed bolts are an Old Town trait.They as well, sometimes show up on non-Old Town canoes that have been repaired or restored in the past.
     
  12. Michael Grace

    Michael Grace Lifetime Member

    Oh, you're right, Dave - I lumped the color line from the "kingofsales" build record in with Brian22's comments. Otherwise, I think I've got this straight (it can get confusing when multiple conversations get woven into one thread). Brian22 has what appears to be a 3-digit serial number, which would not be normal for an Old Town. Brian's antique dealer said the canoe was an Old Town, and based that identification on "a diamond pattern going around the top edge the canoe". I took this to mean a paint pattern, not diamond-head bolts. Brian - is that correct?

    Dave - keep me on target. Am I missing something here?

    I wonder if this is a Charles River-area canoe. Maybe it's just my addiction to the Charles River-area builders, but most of the 3-digit serial numbers I encounter seem to come from them. It'll be fun to see the photos.

    Michael
     
  13. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    canoe4.jpg
    canoe.jpg
    20160910_055249.jpg

    Not sure if the photos will show, if not, could someone give me there email address so I could forward the pictures
     
  14. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    canoe30.jpg
    There is a space with 18 after the 725, just didn't get it in the picture
     
  15. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    St. Louis Canoe... Arrowhead decks, carry thwarts, are typical.
    It looks like diamond head bolts... Those could have been added or used early in Wickett's canoe business, as he came to St. Louis from Old Town.
    Wally Hauck should weigh in here and help with the serial number...which is quite low!
    Dave
     
  16. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Sorry for my ignorance, so its not an Old Town its an St. Louis, or is it an Old Town that is a St. Louis model? Thanks for all the info, this site is great!
     
  17. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

  18. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I emailed one person, but I have come to a stand still as far as the serial number. Thanks, I will try to update if I hear anything else
     
  19. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

  20. OP
    OP
    brian22

    brian22 Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thank you very much. I have sent him all the info I have and pictures.

    Brian
     

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