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Selling A 1907 Charles River Canoe Today Serial Number 5351

Discussion in 'Open Forum' started by Ann, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    LOOKING FOR ANY HELFULL LAST MINUTE TIPS ON SELLING THIS CANOE?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Welcome, the suggestions at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/791/ may help you find any hidden digits in the serial number because the Old Town build record for 5351 doesn't match the sponsons and open gunwales shown on this canoe. It doesn't look like a canoe from 1907. The information at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/57/ might help you value and sell it. The classifieds here at http://www.wcha.org/classifieds are usually one of the fastest ways to find a good new home for it. You will need more information and better pictures so the message at http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/15272/ could help. Can you confirm the overall extreme length in a straight line and post some pictures, especially of the serial numbers from each end including the surrounding areas? Good luck with the sale,

    Benson
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I'm so new to this forum. I have tons of pictures and this is serial number 5351. I will get addition pics up as soon as I figure out how. photo 2 (2).jpg
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    This canoe is 17' long about 42" width and 12" depth.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Sold at Sporting Goods Exclusively VL&A Chicago. Also the pair of paddles measure 48" and 56" and have the label VL&A Just for Sport.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Had this Old Town label on it originally.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Talked with someone at Old Town a couple days ago. He said my serial #5351 or #115351 was either a Charles River 1907 or a HW 1935. The specs for the HW don't match at all. I can't find specs on the #5351. This canoe weighs 100 lbs. The history of the Chicago sporting Goods store is quit interesting
     

    Attached Files:

  8. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Talked with someone at Old Town a couple days ago. He said my serial #5351 or #115351 was either a Charles River 1907 or a HW 1935. The specs for the HW don't match at all. I can't find specs on the #5351. This canoe weighs 100 lbs. The history of the Chicago sporting Goods store is quit interesting.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Your canoe looks like the Old Town with serial number 115351 to me. This build record shows a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, HW (heavy water) model with red Western cedar planking, open spruce gunwales, ash decks, ash thwarts, ash seats, a keel, and sponsons. It was built between January and July, 1935. The original exterior paint color was dark green. It shipped on June, 22nd, 1936 to Von Lengerke & Antoinne in Chicago, Illinois as identified on the stern deck.

    The build record for 5351 shows a 17 foot long, CS (Common Sense or middle) grade, Charles River model with closed spruce gunwales, spruce outside finish rails, ash decks, ash thwarts, ash seats, and a keel. It was built between October, 1906 and April, 1907. The original exterior paint color was dark red. It shipped on April, 22nd, 1907 to Walter Coleman & Sons in Providence, Rhode Island.

    Scans showing both of these build records can be found by following the links at the attached thumbnail images below.

    115351.jpg 5351.jpg

    These scans and several hundred thousand more were created with substantial grants from the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association (WCHA) and others. A description of the project to preserve these records is available at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/records/ if you want more details. I hope that you will join or renew your membership to the WCHA so that services like this can continue. See http://www.wcha.org/about-wcha to learn more about the WCHA and http://www.wcha.org/store/membership to join.

    It is also possible that you could have another number or manufacturer if these descriptions don't match your canoe. Your canoe has diamond headed bolts which were not introduced until the early 1920s. The serial number font stamps were different in the early 1900s, especially the "3" digit. See the images below for some examples.

    5143.jpg 5835-bow.jpg

    The specifications for the HW, Charles River, and Sponson models are shown at http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/old-town/dimens-1.gif confirming that a 17 foot long canoe with sponsons is typically 42 inches wide and weighs 103 pounds. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/12416/ and http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/12320/ for examples of Charles River models from this era and the video below showing a 1946 HW with sponsons.



    Feel free to reply here if you have any other questions.

    Benson
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  10. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    The specs on the 115351 does not match this canoe at all. I haven't been able to find specs on the 5351. John from Old Town says it's 115351 or 5351. I know nothing about canoe's but the serial number is very clear 5351. I will try to get the other side serial number photo soon. He said the 11351 was green and 5351 was red. This boat has not been repainted. Sold out of Sporting Goods Exclusively Chicago prior to them being bought out by Abacrombie and Fitch. The paddles are also from their store. The original label is missing but some remains are still there. 17" 42" wide and 12" depth. Weighs exactly 100 pounds.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Sporting Goods store that sold the canoe
     
  12. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    I respectfully disagree. Your canoe has red paint on the outside rails and rib tops. This is not how canoes were painted at the factory. You may want to do some paint archeology to see if there is some green under the red. Canoe canvas typically lasts about twenty years in normal use and canoes are commonly repainted at more frequent intervals.

    Benson
     
  13. OP
    OP
    Ann

    Ann Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I have not been able to find any green paint at all under the red. It seems that Sponson Model you mentioned fits the specs perfectly. Sorry if I sound short. It's been a long 3 days trying to research this canoe. I appreciated any advice you give me. Thanks Gray
     
  14. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    It is also possible that the canoe has been recanvased or that the red has covered the green so completely that you can't find any evidence without careful sanding, and/or removing the outside rails and stem bands. See http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?threads/7355/ for a discussion about sanding off newer paint to expose original designs. Several canoes similar to yours are advertised at http://www.wcha.org/classifieds if that helps. Good luck with your decision,

    Benson
     
  15. Benson Gray

    Benson Gray Canoe History Enthusiast Staff Member

    Your eBay listing at https://www.ebay.com/itm/142954418969 which identifies the serial number as 75351 is even less of a match for your canoe than 5351. This build record shows an 18 foot long canoe with long twenty inch birch decks, dark green paint, and a bang plate along the full length of the keel which shipped to Macy's in New York City as shown in the attached record below. None of these are a match for your canoe. Good luck with the auction,

    Benson


    75351.jpg
     
  16. pklonowski

    pklonowski Unrepentant Canoeist

    If you look carefully at the image of the serial number, the "11" does appear before the "5351." So it looks like "115351 17" to my eyes.
     
    MGC likes this.
  17. MGC

    MGC Paddlephile

    115351.......very clearly...without a doubt...with 100% certainty....conclusively....decisively...determinedly....Andre will agree.
     
    Dan Lindberg likes this.
  18. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    A similar OT canoe in nice original condition just sold here in a local auction for about $675. The 2 original OT paddles with decals sold for just under $100 for the 2.

    Dan

    the canoe - 1943 Old Town Canoe, serial #138236 is an 18ft long, AA(or top)grade,HW (heavy water) model with open mahogany gunwales, mahogany decks,mahogany thwarts,mahogany seats,rub rails,a keel,a floor rack and sponsons.
     
  19. Andre Cloutier

    Andre Cloutier Firestarter. Wicked Firestarter.

    I concur .. despite your waffling.
     
  20. Dave Osborn

    Dave Osborn LIFE MEMBER

    1C739F8A-B8D9-4954-B407-50B36ADC73E2.jpeg
    Ann,
    The diamond head bolts confirm that it is NOT 1907. Those started around 1920.
    It is definitely 115351. Not sure what specs you are trying to match.
    Weight changes over time. Paint, varnish, sand under the ribs, sponsons, etc.
    I can believe that the depth and width would change over time, too.
    Sometimes hulls “round out” or will “hog”, causing depth to vary.
    Anyway, nice canoe. I would advertise it as a 1935 HW with Sponsons. Good luck selling it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018

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