Older Langford Canoes; a mystery it would seem!

[Lastkozak]

Hi,

I just obtained what appears to be a 15' Langford Canoe; for free. The decal is similar to the photo posted on this site by someone else, right down to how it has worn and torn! Except it is yellow and black.

My Langford is in really good shape, just needs new canvas and a new keel. I cannot find a serial number however, but it looks like a rib has been replaced at some point. It also seems to show signs of at least one re-canvas job carried out.

Other anomalies I have noticed are; steel Roberts screws holding the outer Gunwales on! Rusted and a pain to remove. Also steel nails holding the top hull plank/board on, underneath the Gunwales. I have also found the bolts used to fasten the seat and Yoke made of steel. The greatest perplexing aspect of it is steel nails in the bow and stern, all the way below the water line; also rusted.

I thought all this was a no no! I have thought up several scenarios as to why steel was used, but would love to hear from some experienced canoe people their thoughts or knowledge on such a material being used. Since there is no serial number I am hoping any knowledge as to why steel was used could give me a better idea of its date.

Of course the rest of the canoe has copper nails, but no brass nails, and I cannot tell if any of the copper nails are actually bronze.

I am not even sure if I should bother refurbishing it properly, or just get it floating, painted and water proofed.

 

[Grizzle]

Hi,

I just obtained what appears to be a 15' Langford Canoe; for free. The decal is similar to the photo posted on this site by someone else, right down to how it has worn and torn! Except it is yellow and black.

My Langford is in really good shape, just needs new canvas and a new keel. I cannot find a serial number however, but it looks like a rib has been replaced at some point. It also seems to show signs of at least one re-canvas job carried out.

Other anomalies I have noticed are; steel Roberts screws holding the outer Gunwales on! Rusted and a pain to remove. Also steel nails holding the top hull plank/board on, underneath the Gunwales. I have also found the bolts used to fasten the seat and Yoke made of steel. The greatest perplexing aspect of it is steel nails in the bow and stern, all the way below the water line; also rusted.

I thought all this was a no no! I have thought up several scenarios as to why steel was used, but would love to hear from some experienced canoe people their thoughts or knowledge on such a material being used. Since there is no serial number I am hoping any knowledge as to why steel was used could give me a better idea of its date.

Of course the rest of the canoe has copper nails, but no brass nails, and I cannot tell if any of the copper nails are actually bronze.

I am not even sure if I should bother refurbishing it properly, or just get it floating, painted and water proofed.

Hi,

We should start a Section all to ourselves; something like "The Rueful Langford Owners"!

As you already know, there is precious little information out there about this maker in times past. And my experience, together with that reported by others, of the present management is a bit 'brusque' as you might say.

I'm writing on my Kindle so my old message retrieval facility is limited, but we know that a previous correspondent posted an older Langford factory flier referring to several designs. The present management suggested that my 15ft boat was likely an 'Algonquin'. Wrong. From the flier it would appear that that model was 14ft long.

This manufacturer was in original production perhaps only 25 years ago. In a very small town. It must have been a major employer in that context.

How it is so lost at present mystifies me.


Second issue, steel.

Yup, just the same on mine. Also steel nails at the foot of the cant ribs.

But doesn't it have pretty lines! Since you have the outer gunwale off already, May I suggest brass tacking the tops of the ribs, replacing the new outer gunwale and keel with brass or bronze screws when the time comes.

I am presently stripping the inside of mine - only to discover a length of rotten stem between third and fourth cant rib....... looks like another piece of ash to splice in. And can I repair the foot of cant ribs just as I did their tops? Time to find out!

Old wooden boats, don't you just love 'em.


G

 

[Murat V]

Lastkozak & Grizzle,

Just posted a reasonable image of the older Langford logo in Grizzle's older post here. I too might have a heavily repaired 15' Langford consistent with your descriptions. My canoe is rough, ugly boat but the canvas didn't leak. In the end I just replaced the aluminum stembands, removed the steel, redid the outwales, and planed down part of the keel and slapped on some paint.

 

[davelanthier]

Purchased a 14' some what crudely built w/c canoe 2 days ago. Nice lines, no serial # or other markings. Assumed it was a home built but thanks to this information and your other Langford posting it would appear that I have an original Langford. Makes the restoration more interesting. Thanks.

 

[Andre Cloutier]

Other anomalies I have noticed are; steel Roberts screws holding the outer Gunwales on! Rusted and a pain to remove. Also steel nails holding the top hull plank/board on, underneath the Gunwales. I have also found the bolts used to fasten the seat and Yoke made of steel. The greatest perplexing aspect of it is steel nails in the bow and stern, all the way below the water line; also rusted.

I thought all this was a no no! I have thought up several scenarios as to why steel was used, but would love to hear from some experienced canoe people their thoughts or knowledge on such a material being used. Since there is no serial number I am hoping any knowledge as to why steel was used could give me a better idea of its date.

the original canoes built in the 40s and early 50s by Mr Langford were very nice and well built boats, as you would expect a canoe to be. Unfortunately the later products after his passing bore his name but not his attention to detail or quality. Outsourced even to this day, the boats from a few decades ago featured steel, red oak, and all sorts of features not found on better built boats. They float and paddle well, but finely built they are not.

 

[Lastkozak]

Hey Mo! It actually Foats!



Hi, thank you all for your input. I got the Langford repaired, re-canvassed and into the water. I tried the Mastic approach Orca suggests, and will monitor how it is as a canvas sealer. It is fast, and takes paint well. We will see how it is long term.

I pulled out every bit of metal, drilled it out where necessary, and plugged any large screw holes with dowels. I used Bronze on the keel and brass on the gunnels, also Bronze for the stems below the water line and brass above the water line. I redid the stems with 3/8" brass and tossed the Aluminum.

She floats, heavier than I imagined, about 65lbs

For a first project, I feel I did a decent job. As there is no serial number I am kind of at a loss for dating it, although I could see if the original owners have any idea. The decal was different colours than what has been posted on this site, and perhaps one day I will find out if the yellow and black triangle decal was used during certain years.

I went with the off white, because the mastic looked so good on it. Although not a canoe that a canoe enthusiast would stop and look at very long, but pretty enough that those that know little about cedar, stop and compliment her appearance!

A couple other anomalies were present, but did not notice them as different, until I was talking to Andre Coultier last weekend, (dropped by and bought an old Minneta off him, seems I got the canoe bug). My Langford has cedar outter gun wales, and the midsection flattens out, rather than a continuous curve, and the seats were bolted straight into the inner gun wales. Do not know if those things are of any consequence, but without a serial number recording the detailed description may be best.

She will make a good lake canoe for the cottage, do not think she would be the best choice for a winding river. Will probably let my nieces have it, as she feels stable and reliable, and I will need not worry about them in her. I would say that is probably the virtue of an old cedar Langford.

Taras (lastkozak)

An old Buddy in this picture, who actually taught me how to canoe in scouts, (he had taken instruction from Omar Stringer). He stopped the canoe inches from the concrete pier; for a moment my heart stopped, as I thought he had flipped his noodle!

 

[Grizzle]

Congratulations!

I have just about finished replacing the planking, but have had to leave the job for a while. Your boat looks well, I expect that your nieces will be more than pleased!

G

 

[Alan Blair]

I have a 14' Langford with number 726414 printed on the keel inside near the bow. I am assuming built in 1972 which makes sense because I bought it new then. It is a 14' canvas cover cedar so the 14 is most likely the length. I am thinking the 64 is a model number. I think it is a "Explorer" model. Any help?

 

[Murat V]

Hi Alan.

Can't help directly with your serial number but I've been researching the timeline of the Langford company. Ken Langford seemed to have started the business under his name around 1940 on the south shore of Lake of Bays near Dorset, but he died in 1968. His were the original better quality built boats but unsure of any serial numbers on the stems. By 1969 the business name had been taken over by Kenneth Treadwell and most boats of this era bear the reverse diamond logo associated with the town of Baysville. A sample is below:

Treadwell sold the company in 1976 to new corporate owners (Langford Canoe & Woodworking Inc.) with an office based in Etobicoke. They moved factory operations from Baysville to Gravenhurst. Their marketing literature also reveals a different logo and the diamond deck decals were replaced with round ones featuring a beaver with a "MADE IN CANADA" line.

Given that you purchased in '72 you likely have a boat from the Treadwell / Baysville era. I haven't been able to find any surviving marketing literature or catalogues from this period of the company, but assume the new corporate owners who took over in 1976 inherited the forms and the cedar canvas models were essentially a continuation.

Attached some pictures of the 1978 Catalogue with models and a price sheet. The only 14' wooden model is indeed the 'Explorer" and it is pictured in the write-up. I've got a 15' Trapper model from this post 1976 era and can confirm there are no serial numbers on the stem.

Perhaps your 726414 serial represents the year (72) + number built off the form (64) + length (14) but difficult to say.

By 1986, the company was sold to again to the present family of owners who re-started the business in the Dorset and then Dwight area. They continued with the beaver logo but now outsource the construction of the cedar canvas canoes to a maker in Quebec. These canoes don't seem to share the identifying hull shapes, wood types, seats or other features of the earlier makes.

Would be great if you could post pictures of your boat to compare.

 

[Alan Blair]

Thanks for the quick response. My canoe did have the triangle decal, long gone. I ordered the brass medallion from the “new” Langford company with the beaver just to get the Landford name back on board. I’m working on the seats, that’s why they are missing.