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NEED HELP: Considering buying a Birch Bark Canoe Pics Attached

Discussion in 'Birchbarks, Dugouts and Primitive Craft' started by oldboatoldgoat, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Well,
    I have found this reasonably close to home and have not really ventured the Birch Bark realm much....not because I don't love them but, simply I just have not found one close to home.

    Well, I am looking for advice:
    1 - as to what a reasonable price for something of this condition may be? :confused: I know this is somewhat a subjective question...
    2 - what type of canoe this may be? Brand name or home made?
    3 - Am I completely insane for even looking at this? :eek:

    My feelings won't be hurt. Lets here what you have to say

    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  2. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Couple more pictures

    Here is a few more...

    Thanks for help in advance.

    Mike
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Denis M. Kallery

    Denis M. Kallery Passed Away July 3, 2012 In Memoriam

    Mike,
    Where is home?
    Denis
     
  4. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Home is in PA near Gettysburg!
     
  5. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    Hi Mike

    yes, you are insane. I have never seen a bb with a keel, or a combing for that matter. And I know nothing about them, but Maybe Ferdy will see this and share his knowledge.

    So, what's the sellers number? you're not the only insane one you know. I'll be watching this closely. Great find.
     
  6. Denis M. Kallery

    Denis M. Kallery Passed Away July 3, 2012 In Memoriam

    Mike,
    Ferdy or one of the other BB builders may be able to help you. That is why I asked where home was.
    Denis
     
  7. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Insanity is what keeps life interesting! :eek: Yes? I thought the keel and combing was odd indeed. That may be what caught my eye and made me post.....Never seen anything like it for sure.

    Interesting pictures at least...right?:D
     
  8. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Dennis I just update my location information.....forgot to do that a WHILE BACK! Oops...

    Thanks!
     
  9. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    intersting

    Yes. looks like a cross-over vehicle. Charles River and Fur trapper's canoe from a century ago. Or more?
     
  10. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    I like that "Cross Over Vehicle"

    I have been in formed that it is pre 1900's

    Obviously no modern day tools used in this one!
     
  11. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    in my faded memory

    I seem to recall someone bought a basket case bb for around $500. but my recollection capability is limited. And this is not a basket case.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    One thumbs up to not a basket case!

    Great to hear it's not a basket case. I thought the structure looked surprisingly solid! My 1916 OT did not look as solid.
     
  13. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    1916 ot

    I also have a 1916 OT HW and it is going to need alot of work. I plan to restore as exact as I can.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Mine is a 1916/1917 OTCA.....to exactly clarify. Looking forward to finishing touches.
     
  15. Kathryn Klos

    Kathryn Klos squirrel whisperer

    A Couple-o-Thoughts

    First, let's think back to Fitz's discussion of the DB Neal hybrid canoe... not saying that's what this is, just that canoe makers experimented with different building materials and different looks--

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?t=2796&highlight=neal&page=2

    Second, the birch bark builders we know don't use any modern materials--- they build 'em with the same natural stuff the indigenous peoples used, so it might be hard to date a canoe based materials alone.

    Another thought-- do you want a canoe to display or to use? Seems to me the older bark canoes might be hard to bring back to usable condition.

    Kathy
     
  16. Denis M. Kallery

    Denis M. Kallery Passed Away July 3, 2012 In Memoriam

    Looking at the photos again. It looks like someone saw a closed gunnel w/c and tried to emulate it in BB. There seems to be a inside stem that the BB is attached to. the rail cap and side cap are nailed on but the thwarts seem to be mortised. Then it has the combing like a closed gunnel. The planking seems to be split and is laid in like a BB but the ribs seem to be machine formed with some whittling on the tops. Wonder what the holes are for in the bilge area? Those down the center are - I assume - for the keel. Interesting canoe! :)
    Denis
     
  17. Dave Wermuth

    Dave Wermuth Who hid my paddle?

    While waitnig for Ferdy to come in from the cold I thought I'd add another comment or two.
    I don't see any root lashings. Is that right?
    I thought some of the fasteners may have been nails or pegs.
    A current BB builder somewhere uses nails, I think to fasten the outwale.

    It really does look to be a fusion of two techniques. A missing link, if you will
     
  18. Dick Persson

    Dick Persson Canoe builder & restorer

    Many of the native canoe builders continued to build birchbark canoes and finding a ready and sizeable market for them even after the all-wood and wood canvas canoes became popular.
    The birchbark canoes made during this period, late 1800's - early 1900's, were commonly “modernized” with use of nails and screws as fasteners, less turn-up in the ends, varnished and came equipped with seats, keels and decks with details borrowed from the wood canvas and all-wood canoes.

    Dick Persson
    Headwater Wooden Boat Shop
     
  19. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Lashing...hmmm

    Not totally sure on the lashing...It is hard to tell in the photos if the inwale has lashing or some sort of staple or a long nail bent over. It appears to be at the ribs but also between them. Looks as if whatever it is passes through the inwales. I will be talking with the current owner over the weekend when he returns from a trip.

    I am putting a list of questions together to discuss with him. I surely would entertain any thoughts on question that would be good to ask to possibly identify this craft.

    Anyway you look at it it is an interesting canoe.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    oldboatoldgoat

    oldboatoldgoat Soon to be CANOE-A-HOLIC

    Dick thanks for the information! Have you seen anything quite like this before? Any links to reference?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     

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