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Hello from Seattle

Discussion in 'Guestbook' started by rwilly, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. rwilly

    rwilly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Hello all,
    I just bought an 18' Chestnut. The man I bought it from said its a Prospector model.
    It is a square stern, or what I thought was called a "Scanoe", a few minor fixes to it and it will be ready for the water,
    but it will require a little more extensive work to make it more pleasing to the eye.

    I enjoy reading the stories and looking at the pics of peoples canoe trips, and canoes in general. My employment takes up all my time, but I like to imagine that someday I will have the time to get out on a misty lake and slowly paddle along, enjoying the silence.
    Until then, I will enjoy your stories/pics.

    Ron
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Its not a Prospector. The extra heavy, close together ribs likely make it an Ogilvy
     
  3. OP
    OP
    rwilly

    rwilly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks for the info.
     
  4. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Chestnut did make both the Prospector and the Ogilvy with Vee sterns. Otherwise the two hull shapes are very different. The Prospector is round bottomed and a much more versatile canoe. The Ogilvy is very flat bottomed and was designed primarily with the New Brunswick salmon fishing rivers in mind. It’s exceptionally stable. You can stand up in it quite easily. The Ogilvy is heavier due to the extra wide ribs. It would weigh about a hundred pounds and is a bear to portage. The stem profile, which I can’t make out in the pictures, would also tell the difference. The Ogilvy’s stem profile curves back a lot, so is more c shaped. The Ogilvy center thwart is also exceptionally wide.

    With respect to performance, the Prospector is a sweet paddler, fast and responsive. The Ogilvy is more of a hog, as its more like a raft. How each performed with an outboard attached I can’t say. To me running a Prospector with an outboard would be a bit sacrilegious – you’d almost always have to have it heavily loaded to get an acceptable trim. Without a load and just a paddler and outboard in the back, a Prospector would be very dangerous. The bow would be up in the sky.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    rwilly

    rwilly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    It is definitely heavy, I didn't factor in the weight when I purchased it. My son is only 8 and he will be limited help loading/unloading the canoe from my truck. We intend to use it on the local lakes, no rivers or fastwater for us. I might put our electric trolling motor on it if we need help getting across the lake in the wind. I also have a 4 horse gas motor that would fit it nicely if needed. I don't like the idea of a motor on a canoe, but to each their own.
    I will do some repairs to it. It needs a new outer gunwale (if that's the proper term). The screws in the gunwales are square drive, I'm not sure if that is original. The plywood on the stern will need to be replaced with marine plywood, I am guessing the plywood was put on there to protect and reinforce the motor mount area. It is held on with brass screws. There are numbers stamped in the rear stem-077000.
    The canoe will be a fun project.

    Ron

    20160807_190340323_iOS.jpg


    20160807_192818688_iOS.jpg

    20160814_132206229_iOS.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  6. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Yeah, that’s an Ogilvy stem profile. And square drive screws is what Chestnut used.

    Has it been used or do you plan to use it on saltwater? Be warned that saltwater can be a problem for W/C canoes because of the copper tacks used to clinch planks to ribs. Saltwater will chemically react with the copper and break the tacks down to dust eventually. Look for copper blooms – whitish stains around the tack heads.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    rwilly

    rwilly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    I don't plan on using it in saltwater, unless I ever put it on one of the rivers that dump into the Puget Sound which is doubtful. There might be a small amount of corrosion on the tacks, probably more from time than anything else.
    THis thing is a beast! I'm going to have to the wife, or find a friend that wants to canoe with me, just to help load and unload it.

    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
  8. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    I believe that copper tacks and other fasteners will be ok in salt water -- it is brass which can be a problem -- salt water will leach the zinc from brass (a copper/zinc alloy), staining the wood around a brass tack and, more important, eventually weakening a brass tack to the point of uselessness. I believe that copper (or some kinds of bronze such as silicon bronze) will fare alright in salt water. But the great majority of wood/canvas canoes have been fastened with brass tacks.

    The second photo above does show the kind of stain or "bloom" that results from the de-zincification that can result from using a brass-fastened canoe in salt water. Time alone will not produce the kind of stains shown in the picture. However, the presence of the stains does not necessarily men that the tacks have been fatally weakened, but the condition of those tacks is something you might want to check out.

    Take a look at the following links for previous discussions of the problem in these forums:

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.ph...ezincification
    good photos of zinc bloom

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.ph...ezincification
    check the picasa photo link in post 10 of this thread -- there are some good photos of zinc bloom

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.ph...highlight=halo

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.ph...ezincification

    http://forums.wcha.org/archive/index.php/t-4912.html

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.ph...ezincification
    possible advice on how to remove bloom stains


    Greg
     
  9. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    There is a Northwest Chapter of the WCHA which I would encourage you to get in touch with and join. If nothing else, going to their events will assure you that you will have help getting the canoe on and off the truck! Check the WCHA Home page, link at top, to find out more. Long term, the will help with restoration, repair, and maintenance issues. I am active in the local Boston area chapter and would be lost without their friendship and help.
     
  10. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Hmmm, never heard anybody describe the P as fast. :)
    Big load capacity yes, responsive yes, but fast, no.

    Dan


     
  11. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Now, now, now, Dan, don’t go pickin’ a fight with company in the house. What’s this new fella gonna think of us?

    First, I get our F.L. (that’s Fearless Leader) saying I’m wrong about saltwater and copper blooms –which I ain’t, which I got the 18 foot Ogilvy to prove it happens, which . . . (oh never mind).

    But I let that slide.

    Then you come quibbling about speed! You want me to get Fitz and Steve Lapey on about speed? Sure it aint down in Rio in the Olympics, but it will git if you know how to paddle it.

    And what about what I got right?

    But the main thing is, I’m trying to hook Mr. Seattle for the WCHA and we are making an EXHIBITION of ourselves with quibbles! Let’s try to keep it friendly and sociable for a change.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    rwilly

    rwilly Curious about Wooden Canoes

    Thanks for all the help and info. Speed doesn't matter to me, I'll be happy if I can Get it into the water without breaking something, then I have to manage to stay in it!
    I look forward to learning and having fun.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  13. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    Larry --

    Your F.L. agrees that blooms or halos may indicate a problem. And I do not question either that your canoe has copper tacks or that they have caused halos or blooms. But I do think that such a situation is unusual.

    Copper fasteners are commonly used rather than brass in boats intended for use in seawater because copper is usually resistant to salt water corrosion.

    Copper in seawater will ordinarily change color to brown or greenish brown as a very thin film forms, of cuprous oxide or other chemically similar compounds. That very thin film (around 2800 angstroms or 0.00028 millimeters) actually acts as a protective layer that usually prevents ongoing corrosion.

    Brass is well-known to deteriorate in seawater -- usually over time, with some exceptions seeming to occur. I am under the impression that brass tacks are much, much more common in canoes than copper tacks -- but perhaps more copper was used north of the border?

    Complicating matters when trying to evaluate what halos or blooms indicate is the fact that some brass looks like copper, and there are several common alloys called “brass” that have amounts of zinc ranging from 15% to 39%, often with various other metals in the alloy make-up that affect corrosion resistance. Further, many bronzes also look like copper, and while many bronzes are quite resistant to seawater corrosion, some are not.

    Whatever the metal, and whatever the cause, blooms or halos should give rise to concern about the condition of the fasteners.

    Some of the links I provided above don’t seem to be working. Maybe these will work:

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?13360-another-Huron-thread&highlight=dezincification

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?5185-!934-OT-Yankee-Restoration&highlight=dezincification

    http://forums.wcha.org/archive/index.php/t-4912.html

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.p...-Special-Beverly-MA&highlight=dezincification

    http://forums.wcha.org/showthread.php?8148-salt-water-stains&highlight=dezincification

    If they don’t work, run a search on “dezincification,” bloom,” and/or “halo” -- to see the experience of others on these forums.

    F.L. Greg
     
  14. Larry Meyer

    Larry Meyer Wooden Canoes are in the Blood

    Greg, I'm mostly foolin' around here, you know that?
     
  15. Greg Nolan

    Greg Nolan enthusiast

    But of course!

    F.L.
     
  16. Dan Lindberg

    Dan Lindberg Ex Wood Hoarder

    Hey,

    I agreed with you about the load capacity and maneuverability.
    Got to remember, I'm here in the land of long skinny Wenonah and Bell canoes, the land of hit and switch.
    Short wide canoes don't live here. Rivers don't get much play, it's all lakes and the BW/Q.

    Dan
    and I can't add anything about brass and seawater, it's been way too long and I've forgotten anything I used to know.
     

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