Chestnut Canoe Identity Help - Could this be a pre-fire canoe?

[Cindy C]

Hello everyone, I've done a lot of reading on these forums and have gathered some really helpful information. Tomorrow we are going to look at a Chestnut Canoe that is being advertised as a "pre-fire" canoe due to it having heart-shaped decks. However, the first cant rib is larger than the others (I asked the seller) so that seems to indicate that it is a post-fire canoe. I found another forum where a person stated that they had seen a Chestnut catalog from the 60's that had canoes with heart-shaped decks. I also have a friend who has a 1942 Bob's Special. His father bought the canoe brand new in 1942 and he still has it. And guess what...it has heart-shaped decks. So the heart-shaped deck does not seem to be a reliable way to determine pre-fire or post-fire. The canoe is 16' and supposedly has a 34" beam. However I am not sure where he measured the beam. The canoe was fully restored two years ago and has only been in the water twice. The decks and slat seats are original, some cedar planks were replaced and one rib. Not sure about the gunwales. He said there was an unpleasant gray/green patina to the wood that did not come out when he stripped it. He contacted other canoe restorers for advice. They told him the only way to restore the wood to its original colour would be to bleach dip the canoe which would have been very expensive. They told him the other option was to stain the wood darker, and that is what he did.

The provenance is not great. The man he bought it from, it was his late father's canoe. His father brought it home 42 years ago, intending to restore it. He stripped the canvas off it, pulled off the rotten planks and then hung it in the barn where it remained untouched for the next 42 years. The owner before this man is unknown.

I've attached some pics the seller sent me. They are not great but hopefully show enough detail. I'd also like to know your thoughts on the model of this canoe, what it could be. I'm thinking it might be one of the cruiser types. Some of these pics are from the restoration.

Look forward to your responses, I have a few more pics if needed.

Cindy

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi Cindy,

Afraid I can't be of much help to you, but the weather where I am has been wonderful the past few days and I'm thinking nobody has jumped in to reply because they're out paddling.

There are several members here who know a lot about the Chestnut models, who may also be able to shed light on the approximate age of your canoe. Sometimes when it comes to the age of any canoe, the best anyone can do is to go with what something "seems like". I have a Bob's Special with heart-shaped decks and a history placing it prior to WWII with the second owner. My canoe "seems like" a 1930ish canoe, due to finesse in the woodworking... and I don't know-- sort of "the feel" that I have about it.

The seats in your canoe appear to be “later” to me. How much later, I can’t say but others will jump in eventually and provide information on that type of seat in a Chestnut. My old chestnut has seats that I think are maple, and they have interesting woodworking (aren’t “klunky”), and they have hand-caning.

I looked through the Chestnut catalogs available on CD-ROM and found that the pictures aren’t very helpful. As with catalogs of other builders, images are used over and over. Some of the same images are used by Chestnut pre-fire and post-fire. Morris continued to use the same pictures of heart shaped decks after switching to a curved deck.

My Chestnut has an initial cant rib pair that is made from thinner stock and is about ¼ inch wider than the rest. The other ribs are beveled.

The 2018 Annual Assembly of the Wooden Canoe Heritage Association will feature the Chestnut Canoe (and a tribute to Bill Mason). I’ll be taking my Chestnut there, and hope those who have more knowledge and experience can narrow down an approximate date.

There’s a Facebook group for Chestnut Canoe, if you have Facebook.

Did you decide to buy the canoe?

 

[Cindy C]

Thank you very much for the reply! The initial cant rib is wider in ours as well, and the other ribs are beveled. We did buy it regardless of knowing it's age or model and are so glad we did - we love it! We were out paddling yesterday and again today for 5 hours on some stillwaters. It paddles like a dream and is completely silent. We love it! In the next couple of days I'll get some exact measurements and better pics and post them. We've been too busy padding it and enjoying ourselves! Here's a pic from today:

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Congratulations! I'm so glad to hear you got the canoe and are loving it!

Kathy

 

[Roger Young]

Looking at the 'ghost' of the decal in your first pic, I would think its shape is that of the post-fire period. Doesn't seem to fit the leaf pattern associated with pre-fire decals (which had an extra leaf). Also, with a wide cant rib, I would think you have something made after 1920, rather than before. The distinction isn't really all that important. What counts is that you have a sound craft that you enjoy owning and paddling. Looks to be very nice. Enjoy!!

 

[Cindy C]

Thank you for the info. I got to take some measurements of the canoe today and some better pics. Here are the details:

It weighs 70lbs. The guy I bought it from told me that it had no canvas on it at all when he bought it so he doesn't know what was originally on it but he put #10 canvas on it.

Measurements:

16' long
34" beam (measured at widest point outside canvas to outside canvas. I'm not sure how to get a perfect measurement, so this is more of a "guestimate". It could be a bit less - 33 and something). Outside gunwale to outside gunwale at the middle of the canoe is 32".
Depth - if measured from outside bottom of canvas to top of gunwale it's about 13". If measured from top of rib to top of gunwale it's 12".
Planks - 3" wide
Ribs - 2 1/4" wide with 2" spacing in between. The initial cant rib is 4".
There is no keel but there are holes in the bottom of the canoe to indicate there was one originally.

Here are some pics:













Here is a short video of us out paddling it last weekend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5osgZbAz4

If you have any idea what model it is or how old it is based on the info in this post, please let me know - I'm dying to find out!

Cheers,
Cindy

 

[Kathryn Klos]

Hi Cindy--

I have a reproduction of a 1950 Chestnut catalog showing canoes with heart-shaped decks. Bill Mason's Chestnut in the Canadian Canoe Museum has slatted seats like yours, but has the curved deck. As Roger said, what matters most is that you enjoy the canoe. If you are able to attend any chapter paddling events, chances are someone will have some helpful thoughts-- and someone who has a canoe like yours may jump in here. Is there a chapter in your area?

Kathy

 

[Cindy C]

Hi Cindy--

I have a reproduction of a 1950 Chestnut catalog showing canoes with heart-shaped decks. Bill Mason's Chestnut in the Canadian Canoe Museum has slatted seats like yours, but has the curved deck. As Roger said, what matters most is that you enjoy the canoe. If you are able to attend any chapter paddling events, chances are someone will have some helpful thoughts-- and someone who has a canoe like yours may jump in here. Is there a chapter in your area?

Kathy

Hi Kathy, thanks again for the reply. I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada and I've only just joined the forum so I'm not sure where the closest chapter to me would be. How do I find out?

 

[pklonowski]

Here's a link to the Local Chapters directory.
http://www.wcha.org/local-area-chapters/

I don't see a NS specific chapter, but if there's anyone in your area, I suspect they may chime in soon!

 

[pklonowski]

Nice looking canoe, by the way!

 

[Kathryn Klos]

The main page of the WCHA website has a link to the local chapters. http://www.wcha.org/local-area-chapters/

Chapter events and other paddling events are listed on the main page of the website, and also in the journal. You may find that you are closest to the chapters in New England-- Canada is a big place!

Check out the Fans of the WCHA facebook page if you have facebook... there's also a facebook page for Chestnut canoes. https://www.facebook.com/groups/138513362833406/

You may learn that there's another WCHA member living near you. This is how chapters develop--- two or three get together for paddling, and as others join them a chapter eventually is formed.

The canoe we have riding-about on the roof of the car was built in Nova Scotia.

The book "When the Chestnut was in Flower" by Roger MacGregor should help you understand more about your canoe, if you haven't already discovered it. It's currently out of stock in our online store but may be at your library.

Kathy

 

[Cindy C]

Thanks folks! I think I'll post this on the Chestnut FB page too and see if anyone might know what it is.

 

[Roger Young]

Cindy:
Have a look at Dan Miller's website http://dragonflycanoe.com/wood-canoe-identification-guide/chestnut-canoe-company/ where you will find lots of info on measurements of various Chestnut models. You could start there and get an idea of where your canoe fits (looks like there could be several possibilities). Then you could begin to check photos and descriptions in old catalogues. Eventually, you should get it narrowed down, as well as having some fun in the search. Good luck.

 

[MGC]

This is another helpful PeterNut reference:
http://www.picturetrail.com/jockogilvy

 

[Cindy C]

This is another helpful PeterNut reference:
http://www.picturetrail.com/jockogilvy

Thanks! I've been scouring all the sites everyone has provided...nothing seems to be a 100% match to the inch but so far the closest models seem to be a mid-50's era Pal or Moonlight.

Cindy

 

[MGC]

They don't always match perfectly. PeterNuts seem to vary depending upon age, type etc. Some hulls also tend to round out on the bottom. That can significantly affect measurements. Good luck and welcome to the bazaaro world of PeterNut. I also have one that seems to one of one or the other....and I'll never know exactly which..

 

[Cindy C]

They don't always match perfectly. PeterNuts seem to vary depending upon age, type etc. Some hulls also tend to round out on the bottom. That can significantly affect measurements. Good luck and welcome to the bazaaro world of PeterNut. I also have one that seems to one of one or the other....and I'll never know exactly which..

Thanks!